can a carputer compete with a head unit for sound quality?

**JC-S60** · 01-25-2006, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by edscholl

as i said, exactly how much processing do you think you need? it ain't a whole lot if you want to reproduce accurate sound, versus process the sound to make it sound different than the original source. this is because the information (imaging, sound stage, etc) you're using needs limited processing to begin with- it's simply included in the source.

For listening music in ideal circumstances this could be true, but in a car you have to compensate for the environment the music is reproduced in.

The source can't include the compensation needed to reproduce the sound correctly in every situation.

**JasonWW** · 01-25-2006, 12:45 PM

I'll mention something I saw. A few days ago I saw an H700 on a 3 day sale from Mosco555. He had no pics and just a cut and paste for the specs. I asked him for pics and details about condition and so forth. I got no response. The next day the sale was withdrawn and I saw another H700 in a 3 day sale by collentravel. Again, no pics and the same cut and paste specs. I asked for pics and if it was the same unit Mosco555 had for sale and if so, how do they know each other. I got no response and the sale was withdrwn the next day. I knew something wasn't right.

A few days later I got 2 e-mails from ebay saying that Mosco555 and collentravel may be using the fake sales to collect e-mail addresses or to possibly steal from someone. That confirmed my suspicions.

**JC-S60** · 01-25-2006, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by Red GTi VR6

it's more in the r&r for those companies.

it's a part of the market share.

COntrary to popular belief, not all companies are into every project purely for profit.

Alpine spends a TON of money on reserach and development.

I'll say this much though, chances are that if a company has extremely high end stuff (like the F#1 status stuff), their lower end stuff will be MUCH better than it's compeditor who doesn't have the high end stuff. The knowledge that is gained from the r&r put forth on the high end stuff trickles down to the more accessible level products.

That might sound like just a bunch of jibber jabber...lol

Every big company's only goal IS to make money (it's just the way it is, shareholders, board, just look at the way a company works and takes dicisions). That being said, it's true that not every project has to have a direct ROI (return on investment), as marketing has a lot of effect on sales it pays off to have some projects just for marketing.
The research can be done without commercializing the product, but the gain for marketing is such that it's worth it to sell these systems with a loss.

A lot of people look at those top of the line products to estimate the overall quality of a brand, and magazines love to talk about them

**JasonWW** · 01-25-2006, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by JC-S60

For listening music in ideal circumstances this could be true, but in a car you have to compensate for the environment the music is reproduced in.

The source can't include the compensation needed to reproduce the sound correctly in every situation.

What are we talking about here? Whether processing is needed?
That's too broad a subject. We need specifics. Stuff like Alpines MX, BC and loudness etc... are absolutely NOT needed. Time correction from left to right should not be needed if you have the speakers positioned and aimed properly. You can smooth the response by using zobel networks (although most folks don't). If you have your stuff setup properly the only "processing" you may need is a little bit of EQ.

**turbocad6** · 01-25-2006, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by JasonWW

I'll mention something I saw. A few days ago I saw an H700 on a 3 day sale from Mosco555. He had no pics and just a cut and paste for the specs. I asked him for pics and details about condition and so forth. I got no response. The next day the sale was withdrawn and I saw another H700 in a 3 day sale by collentravel. Again, no pics and the same cut and paste specs. I asked for pics and if it was the same unit Mosco555 had for sale and if so, how do they know each other. I got no response and the sale was withdrwn the next day. I knew something wasn't right.

A few days later I got 2 e-mails from ebay saying that Mosco555 and collentravel may be using the fake sales to collect e-mail addresses or to possibly steal from someone. That confirmed my suspicions.

I used to spend alot of time on ebay.... there are so many scams it aint even funny.... I used to go to the extent of contacting bidders to notify them it's a scam..... I've saved some people.... but there are so many scams..... I'm surprised ebay doen't hire people to watch & monitor more.... I've seen so many scams that never got pulled or pulled days after being posted.....

**Borte** · 01-25-2006, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by JasonWW

Time correction from left to right should not be needed if you have the speakers positioned and aimed properly.

I agree that you shouldnt need time correction if your speakers are positioned and aimed properly, but its really rare that you're able to place the speakers so they center the soundstage in front of the driver.

Cheers
Borte

**RedGTiVR6** · 01-25-2006, 05:46 PM

precisely Borte

In a car, it's next to impossible to place spakers in ideal positions and places....but that's part of the fun!

**turbocad6** · 01-25-2006, 05:47 PM

yeah, but to push the left one back through time alignment will just make it that much worse from the passengers point....

**Borte** · 01-25-2006, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by turbocad6

yeah, but to push the left one back through time alignment will just make it that much worse from the passengers point....

Thats why my ODR has a really nice option to specify where the persons are located in the car.

If I remember correctly (it's been a few years since last time i powered it up) I can select between driver only, driver and front passenger, driver, front and rear passenger. This moves the soundstage around to make it better for everybody listening.

Cheers
Borte

**turbocad6** · 01-25-2006, 06:21 PM

older alpine's had that too, but it only does so much.... if you select it for two front passengers it will have everything centered like it wasn't there..... this does nothing to improve path lengths.... now when you select driver only, the it will add a few ms delay to the left front.... but thats a bandaid approach.......

Idealy you want to try & get those drivers as far away from you as possible... to equalize the pathlengths as much as practical.... the only time delay you should use in the front would be a slight delay maybe on the tweeters, since they can tend to be closer than the mids.... but even then, you should do both the same unless you don't care what it sounds like to the passenger.....