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Thread: can a carputer compete with a head unit for sound quality?

  1. #341
    Super Moderator. If my typing sucks it's probably because I'm driving.... turbocad6's Avatar
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    no red, I didn't misread you, I was agreeing with what you implied about there being no ideal install, I was reinforcing what you said.... I got exactly what you ment when you said: "Sure, time delays shouldn't need to be used, sure tuning shouldn't need to happen...all in an ideal set-up....but there really isn't an idea set-up...so how is it a relevant point?"

    I guess I was just in a typing mood last night, what did I say to make you think I was disagreeing with you? your one of the few here who really understand car audio..... the only time I can remember that we disagreed on anything is when you argued a long time ago that a small center channel was all that was needed

    I know you have since changed your outlook on that, & I admire the fact that you was willing to admit that you were mistaken.... we spend our whole lives learning, right up until the day we die, & even that will teach you something....... I sure as hell don't know everything, & I know I have been wrong before...., & I'm sure I'll be wrong about things again....

    ****, back when I first joined this site I really belived that a high end head unit was superior to any carputer..... I didn't even know about lossless ways of storing music on a computer...... were all learning from each other, which is part of the reason for my sometimes long winded posts.... just sharing whatever little knowledge I aquired through a lot of years of doing this.....

    I've got a lot of respect for you red, & I always see you helping others & sharing your knowledge... I'm sure we both enjoy comunicating our thoughts on car audio & having these forums to be able to discuss things with other enthusiasts that care about what we care about..... & I think for the most part we are in agreement on just about everything

  2. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbocad6
    no red, I didn't misread you, I was agreeing with what you implied about there being no ideal install, I was reinforcing what you said.... I got exactly what you ment when you said: "Sure, time delays shouldn't need to be used, sure tuning shouldn't need to happen...all in an ideal set-up....but there really isn't an idea set-up...so how is it a relevant point?"
    I guess I was more or less talking to JasonWW...

    I guess I was just in a typing mood last night, what did I say to make you think I was disagreeing with you? your one of the few here who really understand car audio..... the only time I can remember that we disagreed on anything is when you argued a long time ago that a small center channel was all that was needed

    I know you have since changed your outlook on that, & I admire the fact that you was willing to admit that you were mistaken.... we spend our whole lives learning, right up until the day we die, & even that will teach you something....... I sure as hell don't know everything, & I know I have been wrong before...., & I'm sure I'll be wrong about things again....
    ahh yes, that thread....

    I've got a lot of respect for you red, & I always see you helping others & sharing your knowledge... I'm sure we both enjoy comunicating our thoughts on car audio & having these forums to be able to discuss things with other enthusiasts that care about what we care about..... & I think for the most part we are in agreement on just about everything
    weren't you looking at getting back into competing a while back? or was that someone else? love to meet up some time!
    Jan Bennett
    FS: VW MKIV Bezel for 8" Lilliput - 95% Finished

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  3. #343
    Super Moderator. If my typing sucks it's probably because I'm driving.... turbocad6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonWW
    I agree 100%.

    Here's a little story that gives a real world example of how a car can create an anomoly and how I fixed it without using the EQ or any electronics.

    In my last car I had the tweeter and mids in sealed kick panels and it took me a while, but I noticed the right side of the stage sounded lower, like dash level, while the left side was higher, at eye level. This perplexed the hell out of me and I spent a lot of time trying to figure it out. I finally found the reason. There is a plastic panel on the underside of the dash that covers all the A/C related stuff and the drivers side was open. I was getting some reflected sound off that panel and the result was a lower stage on that side. I fixed it by glueing some black padded headliner material onto that panel. The material absorbed to high freq reflections and raised the sound stage height to where it should have been.
    this is a perfect example of what I was getting at.... there are so many things in a car to alter the sound the speakers produce.... & before you start tweeking that eq, you should try to get everything as good as you can mechanically..... before trying to equalize a system, you should try to fix the sound by mechanical means..... an eq is not going to cure all deficiencies really, you should start out with speaker positioning, dampening, x-over points, gain adjustments & balancing..... the eq is the final step.... an eq isn't going to cure all though.......

  4. #344
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    heh - I'm actually probably going to pull the inside skins of my doors off this season and deaden the crap outta them...then i'm going to clay the hell outta em



    it makes a HUGE difference!
    Jan Bennett
    FS: VW MKIV Bezel for 8" Lilliput - 95% Finished

    Please post on the forums! Chances are, someone else has or will have the same questions as you!

  5. #345
    Super Moderator. If my typing sucks it's probably because I'm driving.... turbocad6's Avatar
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    ... my doors are so heavy that there starting to sag on the hinges

    dampening is huge..... front doors are really a trouble spot.... very few go all out on there doors..... & this makes a huge difference.... I used to remove the shells & fiberglass the insides to make them more ridgid.... I used to turn the shell upside down & fill the whole upper cavity channel with resin to dampen where I couldn't dampen...then I used to add another belt weatherstrip on the outer & inner top door edges to seal there better.... I used to have the top window seal so tight that the windows wouldn't even open on my competition car.....I can't tell you how many times I siliconed the door panels to the door, & then had to cut them off to make mods.... finally I was playing with filling the door with cubic mass to make the enclosure more correct for the driver.... obviously this would be too extreme for a street car.......

    I doubt I'll ever get back into competition.....it was fun in the begining, but after a while it just turned into work.... the more serious I got the more frustrated I got, between biased judges, a lot of *** kissing & all the political bs that went on.... not to mention the time & money it takes to really be competitive....

    now adays I build just for myself really.... I have a business & a family & no where near enough time to make any kind of serious dent in the circuit really..., & just being another competitor doesn't do anything for me, I approach competition as my only goal is to be #1, if I know I don't have the resources for that then compeating is pointless for me

  6. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red GTi VR6
    heh - I'm actually probably going to pull the inside skins of my doors off this season and deaden the crap outta them...then i'm going to clay the hell outta em



    it makes a HUGE difference!
    Adding a thin steel plate around the speakers extending it as far out as you can helps a lot. It adds mass as well as stiffness. Bonding the inner door skin to the outer with a rigid U shaped piece to clear the window also helps a lot. I think the ultimate thing would be to make sealed enclosures in the doors, but it depends a lot on the room in there.

  7. #347
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    on the door sagging - our truck doors are sagging, when closed you can tell it too if you look close, it's one thing I want to try and avoid...lol

    maybe I won't have the car long enough to matter though

    *shhhh*

    On competing, I understand everything you say. That's a lot of the reason I did SPL for 6 years and swore I would never do SQ. SPL was fun, cheap, and easy (compared to SQ at least).

    However, with that said, I get a lot more reward competing in SQ. My system sounds good AND it's loud, I enjoy talking to people about it and them gasping when they find out that we didn't pay anyone to do anything on the car. (the first question we get a lot of times about the car is "which shop did it?").

    This past year at finals was VERY rewarding. (I now have a set of Focal Be 6.5 mids coming on their way for free!!!). But winning one year at finals doesn't really mean jack to me. Thanks to bias judging, the nature of the game, etc...some people couldn't be there last year that will be there this year, etc. Being able to win year after year after year is what means something to me. One time can be attributed to a fluke, twice to good luck, three times to good work, IMO at least.

    I'm like you in that I don't want to waste my time on something unless I'm going to try to be the best at it, so I spend a lot of time and money getting there...luckally I have a future husband who loves it just as much as I do...hehehe
    Jan Bennett
    FS: VW MKIV Bezel for 8" Lilliput - 95% Finished

    Please post on the forums! Chances are, someone else has or will have the same questions as you!

  8. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonWW
    Adding a thin steel plate around the speakers extending it as far out as you can helps a lot. It adds mass as well as stiffness. Bonding the inner door skin to the outer with a rigid U shaped piece to clear the window also helps a lot. I think the ultimate thing would be to make sealed enclosures in the doors, but it depends a lot on the room in there.
    I'd love to build an enclosure in the door, but there's NO room, as it is I have a 1.5" spacer to bring the speaker out some to clear the window.

    HOWEVER....once I get those 6.5 Be focals in, we will be building some kicks for the car, for better imaging, so the doors won't be AS much of an issue...though they will be deadened a lot
    Jan Bennett
    FS: VW MKIV Bezel for 8" Lilliput - 95% Finished

    Please post on the forums! Chances are, someone else has or will have the same questions as you!

  9. #349
    FLAC
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbocad6
    dampening is huge.....
    you should start out with speaker positioning, dampening, x-over points, gain adjustments & balancing
    Damping
    The other word is to get something wet.
    Sorry to point that out, but I can't help it sometimes.

    This post is for my OCD. I see dampening and I think getting something wet. Just another commonly mistaken homophone. No big deal.

  10. #350
    Super Moderator. If my typing sucks it's probably because I'm driving.... turbocad6's Avatar
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    I did a google both ways, "sound dampening":500,000 hit's, "sound damping": 1,230,000, so your probably around 66% right..... I'll probably remember this, & I may type it this way in the future, but there's no way I'm going back & editing my posts

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