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Thread: Rough tune on your EQ

  1. #21
    FLAC
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerryvz
    After recently installing a new system, I'm working on the tuning. This
    thread has been very helpful.

    I used the Alan Parson Sound Check2 CD with a Radio Shack Sound Level
    Meter. Attached is the curve I got - any suggestions?
    Thanks!
    Jerry
    Jerry, what vehicle is this in?
    Have you already set the amp gains to smooth the response as much as possible?
    Is this with no EQ correction?

    The peak at around 4-5K can give the sound some real bite. Do trumphets or other horns in that region sound harsh at higher volumes? If so you may drop 4-5K down 3dB (not the 5 or 6dB that the response curve is showing).
    Set your volume to about 85-90% of max (assuming max is at the systems limit of distortion) and listen to track 44 the sweep from 20-20K. Do you hear any drop outs or peaks? At any point does the sound break up or sound distorted? Anything that is really noticable you need to make a note of and then go back and find that particular freq.

    The bass guitar track (assuming it's the same as the first disc) should tell you whether that little rise at 50hz is a problem or not. You don't want it to sound boomy. Each note he strums should be clearly defined from one to the next. If one note is noticable louder then you might need to move that freq down a few dB. Accuracy aside. A little extra bass around 50-70hz can sound pretty good in a moving car listening to non-audiophile CD's or just the radio. It can be a bit of user preference.

    Aside from that little peak at 4-5K, it looks really smooth. As long as you have the tweeters, mids and subs adjusted so that they blend together and that no one speaker is noticable louder or quieter than the rest, you may not have much to tweak.

    You might just go in and tweak a little over a broader range to suit your personal preferences and the type of music you like to listen to.

    I'm going to have to go back and use the Radio Shack SPL meter on my system to refresh my memory of what a fairly tone balanced vehicle should look like.

    Tell me what you think of the way your system sounds. Anything that stands out that you don't like or don't know if it sounds right?
    1999 Black Pontiac Trans Am
    CarPC's in F-bodies
    How To Relocate Climate Controls on the 97-02 F-body Cars
    (AMD Sempron 3000+, Opus 150)
    Car PC system is out, Alpine system is in.

  2. #22
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    > what vehicle is this in?

    A Nissan 350Z

    > Have you already set the amp gains to smooth the response as much as > possible?

    I just started the tuning - I'm going to go through and double check.

    > Is this with no EQ correction?

    That is correct.

    > The peak at around 4-5K can give the sound some real bite. Do
    > trumphets or other horns in that region sound harsh at higher volumes?

    Yes. The sound is definitely on the harsh side. I just got the RUX-C701
    installed yesterday. I listen to all types of music Cowboy Junkies->
    Grateful Dead->NIN. Mostly live recordings. I was listening to
    Dani California (Red Hot Chili Peppers) this morning and when they get
    to the chorus it is definitely harsh. I would like to get a warmer sound.
    I grew up listening to my fathers McIntosh tube equipment with Klipsch
    corner horn speakers so my taste is definitely on the "bright" side.

    Great suggestions. This will help give me a solid place to start.


    Thanks!
    Jerry

    PS> I will post the curves after some adjustments.

    BTW anyone looking for a test CD I found the Alan Parsons CD at all
    types of places at ridiculous prices. However, I did find it on the
    Alan Parsons website for a very reasonable prices - details below.

    http://www.alanparsonsmusic.com/home.html
    Click on "AP Shop"
    Click on "Misc Items"
    Sound Check 2 $35

  3. #23
    FLAC
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    For a warmer sound you want it less aggressive around 4-5K. Maybe drop 3.15 a couple dB. Basically reduce the hump from 2.5K to 6.3K. Normally you don't want to jump the gun and just cut it 8dB. Just reduce it to a smaller bump for starters and see how it sounds. If you think it helped, but it needs more, then just reduce the small hump some more to flatten it out.

    Bright usually means the very top end. I don't know where your tweeters are or where their aiming, nor do I know where you had the SPL meter. Usually the tweeters angle and location are not perfect which tends to roll off the top end above 12K or so. You may need to try increasing 16K and 20K by a few db. Too much will just increase the noise floor (hiss) unecessarily, so you'll have to find a compromise.

    If you mean bright as something else, then let me know.

    You say the chorus was harsh sounding? Do you have any idea what freq range that would be in? If this was at high volume it may have been resonances from the door panel. I've seen that happen in the past. Is it still harsh sounding at lower volumes?

    What you can do is play individual test tones through just that speaker (pull rca out of sub amp) and put your ear next to the panel. Go from the bottom x-over freq on up until the tweeter comes in. Do it at about 70-80% volume. If you hear any vibrations or harmonics, you can press on the door panel and see if they go away.

    Does the chorus sound as if it is breaking up, maybe? Hard for me to figure that one out.
    It is pretty hard to figure these things out without actually being there and listening for myself. I'll do what I can to help, but this tuning thread is obviously limiting.

    When you say you found that CD at ridiculous prices, do you mean high or low? $35 is about right for a new disc.
    1999 Black Pontiac Trans Am
    CarPC's in F-bodies
    How To Relocate Climate Controls on the 97-02 F-body Cars
    (AMD Sempron 3000+, Opus 150)
    Car PC system is out, Alpine system is in.

  4. #24
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    great thread Jason, you are a much more patient person than I am, and have much more time than I...lol (which doesn't say you have much time at all, mind you)

    I'd love to see this thread stickied, even though those of us who go through the hastle of tuning to this extent are far and few between on this board.
    Jan Bennett
    FS: VW MKIV Bezel for 8" Lilliput - 95% Finished

    Please post on the forums! Chances are, someone else has or will have the same questions as you!

  5. #25
    FLAC
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    Jan, if you have some tips, suggestions or answers for someone asking, feel free to jump in.

    Tuning a sound system over the internet.
    Seems kinda silly.
    And this is just to get things started. There's so much more to get a system really dialed in. Hopefully, this thread will point people in the right direction and get their stuff sounding better than it was before. I think that's about all I can hope for, because tuning over the web can only go so far.
    1999 Black Pontiac Trans Am
    CarPC's in F-bodies
    How To Relocate Climate Controls on the 97-02 F-body Cars
    (AMD Sempron 3000+, Opus 150)
    Car PC system is out, Alpine system is in.

  6. #26
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    I'm still in the stages of learning all I can about tuning, it's one area I'm sorely lacking skills in, but I'm working on it..hehe

    everything looked to be spot on from what I've read so far, but again, I'm no expert on this side of things.

    I think that more than anything, this thread might just push some people to try it and who knows, it might just bite them and get them more interested in quality sound.
    Jan Bennett
    FS: VW MKIV Bezel for 8" Lilliput - 95% Finished

    Please post on the forums! Chances are, someone else has or will have the same questions as you!

  7. #27
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    > For a warmer sound you want it less aggressive around 4-5K. Maybe
    > drop 3.15 a couple dB.

    That is where I'm going to start.


    > Bright usually means the very top end. I don't know where your tweeters
    > are or where their aiming, nor do I know where you had the SPL meter.
    > Usually the tweeters angle and location are not perfect which tends to
    > roll off the top end above 12K or so. You may need to try increasing 16K
    > and 20K by a few db. Too much will just increase the noise floor (hiss)
    > unecessarily, so you'll have to find a compromise.

    Yes that is what I mean. The tweeters are in the stock location right now
    which is in the corner of the window and top of the door panel. Not a
    perfect location or angle but I'm to going to see what I can do before
    I try a more aggressive mounting. Overall the sound of the system is
    nice with good forward imaging. Just want to do some tweaks.

    I was holding the SPL meeter about head level near the center of the car.

    Today at lunch I was listening to a live DMB CD and when the Sax jumped
    in it was too much - definitely going to start by turning down the 4-5K
    range.

    > You say the chorus was harsh sounding? Do you have any idea what freq
    > range that would be in? If this was at high volume it may have been
    > resonances from the door panel. I've seen that happen in the past. Is it
    > still harsh sounding at lower volumes?

    Sounds good a lower volumes. There is no distortion. It's hard to
    describe but it is just not a pleasant warm sound - ear fatigue.

    > It is pretty hard to figure these things out without actually being there
    > and listening for myself. I'll do what I can to help, but this tuning thread
    > is obviously limiting.

    Agreed. The SPL provides a good visual reference to identify some areas
    of large disconnect. However, it is difficult to discuss the fine points
    of properly tuning a system without hearing it. However, this thread does
    have a lot of great "cookbook" ideas to get someone like me (novice)
    moving in the right direction. Thanks for the help - it is really great!

    > When you say you found that CD at ridiculous prices, do you mean high
    > or low? $35 is about right for a new disc.

    High prices.

    Thanks!
    Jerry

  8. #28
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    one thing to consider. if a certain frequency is too harsh, check and make sure that your speakers aren't trying to reproduce the same frequencies (overlapping) because that WILL make those frequencies sound harsh.

    This is where you will need to mess with X-over points and slopes.
    Jan Bennett
    FS: VW MKIV Bezel for 8" Lilliput - 95% Finished

    Please post on the forums! Chances are, someone else has or will have the same questions as you!

  9. #29
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    I finally got some time over the weekend to tune the system. I knocked down the high 4K frequency just a little. However, I think "Red GTi VR6" hit it right on. When I adjusted the cross overs I was able to get rid of the "harshness" of the sound. Now I'm very happy with the fullness of the sound stage and the imaging is very good - dead center.

    Here are the adjustments I made to the cross overs. I'm new to this so any recommendations of other setups to try would be appreciated:

    Fronts:
    HPfc : 50
    HPslope : 6
    LPfc : 20K
    LPslope : 6

    Sub:
    HPfc: 20
    HPslope: 6
    LPfc : 63
    LPslope : 12

    I'm really happy with the sound now. I'm going to keep my hands off the knobs for a little while to give myself a chance to enjoy the system instead of fiddling with it. Then I will try some other options. I really did not know what I was doing with the slopes - that will be something I will likely tweak. Any guidance?


    Thanks,
    Jerry

    BTW, before I started the cross overs were set as follows:

    Fronts:
    HPfc : 20
    HPslope : -
    LPfc : 4K
    LPslope : -

    Sub:
    HPfc: 20
    HPslope: -
    LPfc : 80
    LPslope : 18

  10. #30
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    Hrmm - the fronts seem a little low

    maybe try crossing them over at 100 and a 12-18db/oct slope?

    could keep the mids from bottoming out

    by making that change you would be preventing the mids from overlapping with the sub as much, this making your bass less boomy

    (of course, all of this depends upon your install, speakers, position, etc as well)

    might tinker with the subs rolling off at 18-24 too

    let us know if you do and if it sounds any better or worse!
    Jan Bennett
    FS: VW MKIV Bezel for 8" Lilliput - 95% Finished

    Please post on the forums! Chances are, someone else has or will have the same questions as you!

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