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Thread: Speaker position/type question

  1. #1
    Newbie Ivan_Deslayer's Avatar
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    Speaker position/type question

    I starting to plan out my Carputer. I致e searched around the forum and nothing really answered my question. I知 installing into my 99 Caravan. I知 thinking of using a M-Audio 1010LT. My van already has in Infinity sound system from the factory. I壇 like to do 7.1 surround but I知 unsure of a couple of things.
    1) The van is loaded with 6 speakers I知 ***-u-MEing that the set that is in front are tweets, doors are a midrange and the rears are a bass/ midbass. How do I confirm this?
    2) With this setup can I do 7.1 by adding a center and a sub? What center do you recommend?

    I know I have some technological hurdles still but with the massive amount of information here I can get through that. Right now I知 at the, I must be smoking crack to think this is gonna work stage.

    Thank you in advance.
    This is my disclaimer: I believe in doing things a certain way and to a certain standard. These are my standards for myself, if you hold yourself to high standards great, if you do not then don't knock or nitpick the people who do and what they say.

  2. #2
    Variable Bitrate brucedog's Avatar
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    There certainly are guys out there with more expertise on 5.1, 7.1, etc, etc, but let's examine what you've got in that Caravan and take a crack at it.

    Bt first, that sound card, if this link is the one, does not look like the one that a person would use for an average car (van) audio setup. It appeas to be more of a musician's mixter-type pci card...
    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...ound_Card.html


    If you're going audiophile grade sound, there is reference to it at the top of the page for car audio forums - but if you just want a really nice typical audio setup, why not go with something like one of the Creative Sound Blaster pci cards. By the wa, are you planning to install a pc tha can tae a regular size pci card?
    http://us.creative.com/products/welc...&WT.mc_id=3854


    I'm guessing that you are talking about a stock audio system with those front, door, and rear speakers, no? If it IS a stock audio system, then the first consideration is how do you plan on connecting the audio output of your future carpc to the stock audio system? Unless you have a HU (headunit) with RCA inputs or some such, you will need to find a way to connect. There are ways...

    One way to identify just what range speakers you do have in your van would be like this: first, get one of your cd's of the very best recording quality. Something with full-range sound, so that the characteristics of your installed speakers are fully highlighted when the music plays.

    Start the music at a decent volume, then use the balance and fader controls on your HU to isolate and play a particular speaker of your choosing. Adjust the bass and treble controls of your HU as necessary. Now, listen with all your eas to that speaker, and ask yourself if it reproduces the high frequencies best (treble) or the lower bassy frequencies. Or do you hear a mid-rangy sound. That's how I'd test 'em, each and every one.

    I've got to get out of this car...we'll talk more, ok?

    Blessings and good luck.
    Happy CarPC'ing!

  3. #3
    Variable Bitrate brucedog's Avatar
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    ...not "eas"....

    ...but "ears"

    Bateries on me wireless kbd need charging - NOW!

    Happy CarPC'ing!

  4. #4
    Constant Bitrate ronjon228's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brucedog View Post
    ...not "eas"....

    ...but "ears"

    Bateries on me wireless kbd need charging - NOW!

    Ha, brucedog, you crack me up man. However, you are a great person on the forums, always trying to help out and cheerful. Respect my friend.

    I for one, feel that surround sound (5.1,6.1,7.1) just isn't one for a mobile environment. Speaker placement, actual practicality and overall expense just break the deal for me. I think a nice sounding front stage with some bass and a BIT o' rear fill to back it up is the way to go.
    CarPC:
    1.8GHz Northwood, Intel 845 Mobo, 512MB DDR, 1x20GB + 1x160GB, Intel GPU, SB Live 5.1

    Sound System:
    Phoenix Gold RSD 65cs 6.5" Drivers, Infinity Tweets, Pioneer 305DVC 12", PPI Sedona 630IX, Alpine MRP-M500

  5. #5
    FLAC greatwhite's Avatar
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    Chrysler audio systems are a "little different" than most.........

    "Chrysler spatial imaging" system is thier moniker.

    Anyways, are the speakers that you are refering to as tweeters in the sail painels? They are actually small full range speakers and not tweeters. The door speakers are also full range. same with the rears.

    Infinity uses 2 Ohm impedance speakers for all thier drivers. Not really compatable with aftermarket stuff.

    If you're planing to reuse the factory stuff (including the head unit) you're pretty much stuck with it as is. The factory radio is stereo, not surround. It takes the left and right track and splits each into two feeds and sends on to the front and one to the rear one both left and right channels. You can add on a sub with either the power subs on the market or an amp and seperate sub. If you're looking for anything other than basic sound though, you won't be happy with it. A sub will make your factory system sound better by adding lows, but the doors and rear will still sound the same. As I said, good enough if you like it now and are only interested in basic sound. But if you have any inclination to improve your system, well.................

    If going throught the factory HU (you'll need the plug in adapter box from chrysler to give you an AUX in jack) just use the MOBO onboard sound. No matter what you feed to the stock HU (ie:1010lt, audigy2, audigy 4, etc), you're only going to get stereo out of it. If you want to go true 5.1, 7.1, etc you need to source new speakers, amps, etc.

    In other words, a completely new system.

    Chrysler systems (especially infinity) are pretty much proprietary.

    I suppose if you want to be able to say "I've got 6.1", you can throw in a sub and be techincally correct. You will have the seven speakers in the car, but it won't have 5.1/7.1 sound. Big difference.

    Now, personally, I had the Chrysler 7.1 "spatial imaging" system in my 300m Special with the factory amp, center channel, sat nav, etc and I ripped it out first chance I got.
    Crap, absolute crap.
    I went with the carputer and simple 2.1 sound. Without a question blows the factory system out of the water. 6.5" components in the doors, sub in the trunk. Audigy 4 pro soundcard running KXdrivers. Even with the great sound I've got, there's more headroom than I can use in that driver and soundcard. I'm still learning my way around DSP and teh flexability the KXDriver gives you. I'd like to eventually get to using AISO and programs like cosole, but it feels like it's going to take forever just learning the kxproject sometimes.............

    I wanted to eventually go to 7.1 also, but have been reading that it's not so great an idea in a car enviroment. To many echos and false images. Most seem to say 2.1 is the best way to go ina car. And the way my 2.1 setup is sounding, they may be right. (if I go with rear speakers eventually, it'll just be for some fill)

    Another thing to consider, you're not going to get 5. or 7.1 unless the music is coded that way. Movies are, but music is usually stereo only. Meaning, your 5.1 or 7.1 is essentially going to be stereo anyways when listing to mp3's, radio, etc. You can get it to produce 5.1 etc, but that involves another level of processing. Not worth it IMO.....

    Sorry, probably not what you wanted to hear, but there it is.....

    Good luck
    For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return.
    Leonardo Da Vinci

  6. #6
    Variable Bitrate brucedog's Avatar
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    Here's a link for one of those fm modulator units that allow a person to connect aux stereo audio into a factory car stereo:
    http://www.mobilevideo4less.com/Merc...oduct_Code=FMK

    A lot of people use "cassete adapters" to input their mp3 player (or carpc) into stock HU's. Cassette units don't sound very good, though.

    There's also those little battery-powered transmitters that send an audio signal through the airwaves to be received by stock HU. They're not too great, either...

    One optimistic point, though: when you connect an auxilliary audio source, such as your future carpc into your factory car stereo, the carpc generally has a decent high-level audio output. This signal can drive the HU like never before, producing overall better tone and louder sounds than were heard in the past. When you get to that point, setting the output level of your carpc to match your HU can be addressed...
    Happy CarPC'ing!

  7. #7
    FLAC greatwhite's Avatar
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    I agree that fm modulators and cassette adapters, well..............suck......but the rest:

    Sorry, have to disagree. (This is nothing personal and meant to inform the OP, no-one else)

    The HU CD is the best quality sound you're going to get out of it. It won't get any better than that as the au file format is the best digital signal you will get. At best, you can play the uncompressed/copied music from the cd throught the 'puter. But even this is not ideal as you've added another step between the source(cd/HD) and the HU. Look at it this way, you've taken a digital source, converted it to analog (line out), transmitted it to the HU, which now reads it, amplifies it, and send it out to the speakers or factory amp. TAo many handoff's there which results in signal loss. It's the digital to analog conversions over and over that do it.
    Mp3's, while decent quality, are not the same as what was ripped of the cd. FLAC or any other lossless format may equal it.

    The bottom line is, the HU and stock speakers are going to be the limiting factor here. You can process the sound all you want, but if the stock system doesn't have the response, well...............

    Now, if you intend to process the sound after it comes out of the HU, that's a different story. But if you're going to go to that extent, why not start with a better source to begin with? That would be directly out from a decent voltage line out soundcard to the amps.

    But, from your original post, I think you're pretty much satisfied with the original sound and looking for a small increase and the flexibility a 'puter will add. So with that in mind:

    1. Get the adapter box from chrysler to give you an aux in, unless your model already has it (which I doubt, not to many 99's had that)
    2. get one of those self powered "add on" subs
    3. Plug in the 'puter
    4. Mount the screen

    But, if you intend to get some really nice sound, you need to sit down and draw up a plan for the whole thing as a system. Lot more money, lot more work...............

    Like I said, if you're happy with the stock system sound, and aren't looking for an integrated "factory looking" system, then stick with it. Hide the puter and screen away and your vehicle will look just lke it does now. But Adding on to factory system ultimately just ends up costing more in the end because as your desire for better sound increases, you find out very quickly that factory stuff just can't keep up.

    Remember this one little saying if you have any inclination to improve your sound system:

    The best you know is the best you've heard.

    Keep in mind (and this is to the OP, no-one else) this is all talk about a pretty stigent system with great sound. As I mentioned, if you're happy with the stock sound and probably will never go any better, have at it and be happy.

    A better question would be what you want to do with the 'puter? IE:

    Navigation
    Just play mp3's
    games
    Internet
    obdII
    etc...........

    This is more of a determining factor on how you should go than what your stock system is now.

    Cheers
    For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return.
    Leonardo Da Vinci

  8. #8
    Newbie Ivan_Deslayer's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies everyone. I'm actually thinking. Well no I am replacing the head unit. If I gotta tear the speakers out so be it. My preference was to replace the HU with the PC and an amp. The "tweeters" the I thought where tweets are in the dash face "up". Like I said mainly planning looking to do damage to the wallet. Also I'm sure the front doors have speakers as well as speakers in the rear oriented with the third row seat. I'm going to incorporate a sub into the lift gate since I have no other room because I have rear heat/AC. I may look into placing it elsewhere though. Again thank you a bunch everyone.
    This is my disclaimer: I believe in doing things a certain way and to a certain standard. These are my standards for myself, if you hold yourself to high standards great, if you do not then don't knock or nitpick the people who do and what they say.

  9. #9
    Newbie Ivan_Deslayer's Avatar
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    Thank you for the replies everyone. Did some exploratory surgery over the weekend found out that there seem to be amplifiers mounted directly to the speakers in the dash panel and well as the sailpanels (d-pillars) in the rear of the van. So I guess I'll be replacing the speakers, adding amps, going with a decent sound card, adding a sub and calling it done for the audio side. Seems like I won't have to goof with the sound stage much if I mount tweets in the dash location. Interesting that the front door speakers are 6x9 as well as the speakers in the rear near the 3 row seat. It's got 8 speakers totally giving it the "imaging" I heard discussed about Chryslers. Just doesn't have the oomf I'm looking for. What do you guys think about mounting a sub into the hatch? Aside from the actual install (which I think I can do) what are the thoughts of have a sub mounted in that location? Should not install it into a door? Might it be possible to damage the voice coil?
    This is my disclaimer: I believe in doing things a certain way and to a certain standard. These are my standards for myself, if you hold yourself to high standards great, if you do not then don't knock or nitpick the people who do and what they say.

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