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Thread: enhancing sound system

  1. #11
    MySQL Error scott_fx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rijndael View Post
    how much money do you have to play with? typically, what you want is something that has more power than your max rating on your speakers...reason why is because at a volume that requires power that your amp doesnt have, you get a massive amount of distortion, even though your speakers can handle it...that will damage both your speakers and your fry your amp. if you have 75W RMS and 150W Max speakers at 4ohm, I would get an amplifier that has 200W per channel at 4ohm (200W x 4 = 50W per channel which is not nearly what you need for even your RMS rating)

    also, dont run your 4ohm speakers at 2ohm...you will damage them...but one thing you can do, is double the length of the wire if your running from the amp at 2ohm and at the speaker, you will probably be around 4ohm...you will have to use a multimeter for that though just to be safe...i think its a multimeter at least...
    Hey rigndael,

    you have a lot of misinformation and half knowledge scattered throughout this post.

    first, for a moderate system he'll be fine. and all of his components will work together. infiniti speakers are known for their efficiency. What you are kinda referring too is called 'headroom' and yes, having an amp that is putting out 150 wrms per chan will give less distortion and have a cleaner signal if the gains are set right. But as long as his gains are set correctly and he's not pushing his amp into distortion by turning the volume all the way up... then he'll be fine.

    I have no idea how you came about suggesting running twice the length of wire. nor do i understand how to run a 4 ohm speaker at 2 ohms unless you purchase some resistors.

    to the op... if you already have the equipment, you'll be fine. spend the time and money on installation (aiming, mounting, sound deadening, tuning). If you haven't purchased the equipment you could benefit from a more powerful amp (gives you some extra sq and spl --volume--). To put it clearly, you'll hear a lot of people saying "too little power will kill a speaker faster then too much power" well... to be clear. if you have a 200 watt amp and a 5 watt amp, neither one of the amps are going to blow the speaker when set up correctly. What happens though is that if you have a 5 watt amp and you are always cranking it up to the max volume you are no longer in the amplifiers sweet spot and you are introducing distortion to the speakers. distortion is what kills the speaker. now lets say that you have a 200 watt amp. after you set your gains correctly you can turn the volume up much higher before the amp starts to distort the signal. Hopefully... this is within your preferred listening volume and you're safe. does that make sense now? to further illustrate. think of a go kart as your 5 watt amp, and a corvette as your 200 watt amp... the throttle is your volume. a go kart driving at 100 mph vs. a corvette driving at 100 mph... the go kart is going to fry well before the corvette will... [on the flip side, now drive them both around at 5 mph and you're not going to break either engine, (working within it's power limits) but you may not be happy with the speed]
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  2. #12
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    @scott_fx thanks for your detailed reply.

    For me I don't like high volumn , usually 16-18 - I just wanted to know they are suitable for each other or not. you can have 2 perfect componenets but not suitable for each other.

    60X4 or 80X4 was better for the speakers?

    thanks

  3. #13
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    Nice job scott, I was wondering where that info came from. I'm really interested in it's source. Especially the part bout the 4ohm 2ohm spker wiring and wire distance. The average spkr wire has .064 ohms... that's alot of wire to gain 2ohms..

  4. #14
    MySQL Error scott_fx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HNaga View Post
    @scott_fx thanks for your detailed reply.

    For me I don't like high volumn , usually 16-18 - I just wanted to know they are suitable for each other or not. you can have 2 perfect componenets but not suitable for each other.

    60X4 or 80X4 was better for the speakers?

    thanks
    High volume is kinda arbitrary though. volume isn't a standardized value and there is a lot more that comes into play. 60 watts rms to an infinity coaxial is going to be a lot louder then 60 watts to; say, dynaudio components. now... i said 'louder' i didnt say better. :-). And volume isn't the main reason why you'd want more power from the amp, remember my analogy about the go kart. so what's 'better' for the speaker and the sq... well 80 watts rms x 4 would be better then the 60 wrms x 4 if everything else is the same.

    in my system i have an amp that is purely for my tweeters (8 ohms) and is pushing them at 75 watts rms. are the tweeters ever going to see that much power? def not but my amp isn't going to strain even at the highest listening volumes and that means clean clean sound (that gets quickly masked by my exhaust )


    Quote Originally Posted by dopey273 View Post
    Nice job scott, I was wondering where that info came from. I'm really interested in it's source. Especially the part bout the 4ohm 2ohm spker wiring and wire distance. The average spkr wire has .064 ohms... that's alot of wire to gain 2ohms..
    thanks
    i think a lot of times people read something but dont fully understand it. car audio is very confusing and i have been caught in the past (well...even now i get caught sometimes ) making some generalization. but the op took it to the max on this one
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  5. #15
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    http://www.jblpro.com/pub/technote/spkpwfaq.pdf

    http://www.jblpro.com/pub/technote/lowpower.pdf

    Check out these two links for a better understanding of power handling.
    Andy Wehmeyer
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  6. #16
    MySQL Error scott_fx's Avatar
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    those are some good reads!
    New System in progress:
    M10k
    Phaze TD1500 ~> Dynaudio MD130
    Phaze TD1500 ~> Seas g18rnx/p
    Zapco Ref 500.1 ~ 12" tc-9
    Behringer DCX2496 ~ Envision Electronics psu
    Transflective Xenarc

    My Car Pc Install
    My Boat Pc worklog

  7. #17
    Variable Bitrate rijndael's Avatar
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    thanks Scott for jumping in and explaining it better than i could....but what i was trying to say (and im pretty sure i said it but dopey got it switched around) was that he shouldnt run a 4ohm speaker at 2ohms...however...if he has an amplifier that is running 2ohms he can lengthen the wire to create the resistance level he needs (I may have worded it wrong and led you to believe you get 2 from 4...not the other way around...you create resistance...not lose it)...either way...hes not running it at 2 ohms, but it was a suggestion because he may want/need more power.

    ill find that site sometime tonight and ill post it here...i found it by accident the first time...
    Trouble deciding on car speakers? Clicky Clicky
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  8. #18
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    It doesn't work that way. You can change the amount of power that the amplifier makes by adding resistance either in series or in parallel. If you put a resistor in parallel with the speaker, the amplifier will make more power. The speaker will see the same amount as before and the rest of the pwoer will be turned into heat in the resistor. If you put the resistor in series, or add more wire, the amplifier will make less power and the power that it makes will be divided between the speaker and the resistor in inverse proportion to the resistance of the two components. In either case, the speaker doesn't get any more power.
    Andy Wehmeyer
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    Harman Consumer Group
    Mobile, Portable and Companion Products Division

  9. #19
    Variable Bitrate rijndael's Avatar
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    but doesnt the resistance change so that it doesnt damage the speaker?
    Trouble deciding on car speakers? Clicky Clicky
    Speakers: DLS Ultimate Iridium 6.3 Link
    Subwoofer: removed
    Amplifier#1 (Front Stage): DLS Ultimate A4
    Amplifier#2 (Sub) removed
    Carputer: Removed for tablet install

  10. #20
    Variable Bitrate rijndael's Avatar
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    here...this isnt the exact place where i found it the first time...but this should answer your question..

    http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc...0/phy00028.htm

    EDIT: Here is another one better explaining what i mean. If i am wrong and resistance itself does not hurt the speaker...please let me know...cause that was one thing i thought hurt speakers...im a computer guy...i have my local audio shop handle my audio and i try to learn as much as i can...

    http://www.wavetechnology.org/FREEBI...gauge_dave.pdf <<<yes...its a PDF

    also, since the current flowing from the amplifier stays the same (100W is 100W)...doesnt he end up with 100W at 4ohm by doubling the length of wire but with less stress on the amp itself creating less heat and thus longer life of the amp?
    Trouble deciding on car speakers? Clicky Clicky
    Speakers: DLS Ultimate Iridium 6.3 Link
    Subwoofer: removed
    Amplifier#1 (Front Stage): DLS Ultimate A4
    Amplifier#2 (Sub) removed
    Carputer: Removed for tablet install

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