Page 6 of 10 FirstFirst 12345678910 LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 95

Thread: Why does my new setup sound like ***?

  1. #51
    FLAC PhilG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    920
    Basically the impedance of the speakers is the resistance to electrical current. The lower the resistance, the more current it lets flow, therefore the more power will come from the amp and through the speakers. So if the amp & speakers are rated for 4 ohms only, no problem, perfect match.

    Think of it as a garden hose with a fragile nozzle on the end of it. You put a set of visegrips on the hose to half close it off, and the volume of water getting to the nozzle is reduced (amps). You remove the visegrips and all of the water gets to the nozzle. Assuming the water supply (amp) can maintain the same pressure (volts) in both scenarios, you now have much more stress being put on the nozzle as it deals with the same amount of pressure but twice the volume of water.

    If the speakers have a lower impedance like 2 or 3 ohms, they have the potential to draw more current which could be an issue of overheating the amp. If the amp is overkill and not adjusted correctly, the speaker voice coils could get smoked.

    But remember, there are gain controls on the amp and you are the one in control of the volume knob!
    My 2007 Ford F350 Work Log located HERE

  2. #52
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    19
    I disagree with soundman on this one, when you wire the amp to the highest ohms the amp will not make full power. The amp is rated at 175 watts per channel at 2 ohms. it well be much less 7 or 8 ohms. When you wire them in parallel with one 4 ohm speaker and one 3 ohm speaker you will get 1.71 ohms, close enough to 2 ohms for me. The amp may run a little warm but should be ok.

  3. #53
    Maximum Bitrate Mickz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    811
    When an amplifier is designed there are a few basic design parameters that need to be decided and locked in. Among other things the design parameters determine the type of output device used in the amplifier and the current handling capacity of the supply, along with component rating, track thickness and board layout (related in part to cost and size.)

    An amplifier is designed to deliver its rated power into a specified resistive load (ohms). That load is the speaker.

    The speaker is not rated in resistance but impedance because the value is a result of speaker DC coil resistance (what you measure with an ohm meter) and a varying value that changes with frequency (music) and movement of the coil through the magnetic field. The result is impedance.

    If you place a load (speaker) of lower impedance than the design then the breakdown limits of the output devices can be passed before the amplifier even reaches it rated output. The amplified can be forced to deliver power above the design limitation of the supply and output circuit, it can (and almost always does) become unstable when driven into a lower load at high level and lastly, if it manages to survive it will overheat if driven to a HIGHER output than the design allowed for. The end result is destruction of the amp and/or speakers.

    Having a higher impedance load (within reason) on the amplifier will result in the amplifier delivering less power into the load (speaker) at its rated max input signal.

    A simple way to think of it is this.

    You have a power supply that is rated at 100watts into a 10 ohm load.

    This means it is designed to produce approximately 32 volts across a 10 ohm load (100w).

    If you put a lower value load, say 5 ohm, then the supply will be forced to produce 200 watts.

    That is providing it can deliver 32 volts into the 5ohm load without blowing (it can’t) and even if it
    could, the wiring, terminals, power supply and control circuit are not designed to pass that amount of current and dissipate the amount of heat produced in doing so.

    A car amplifier is nothing more than a fancy power supply or DC to AC power convertor. It converts a vehicle’s (nom) DC +12v into a High power AC signal with the level of that signal controlled by a small AC input voltage (audio.)

    To recap – what you think and what happens in reality are two different things.

    The biggest danger with a lower impedance than the design value is:

    1: You do NOT know the current load line of the output devices or the design parameters chosen for the output stage.

    2: You ALWAYS run the risk of exceeding the point of destruction with a lower than design impedance.

    3: If it’s someone else’s amplifier then “it should be ok” is dubious advice unless you offer a money back guarantee, which is why soundman and I would always advise on a higher rather than lower impedance than the amplifier design value if using speakers that don’t match the design value.

    This is not an “I think”, “I tried it and it worked”, “in my opinion” or “I never had a problem” answer, this is a SIMPLIFIED technical fact of why an amplifier should not be driven outside its design parameters.

    It’s you amp, it’s you risk, just understand the problem that can occur.


    EDIT:

    I thought I should add that I’m not saying this or other amplifiers can’t run into a lower load impedance. A huge number can and do. What I’m trying to get across is that it depends on so many variables including the type of music and lowest impedance the speaker actually presents to the amplifier.

    I have worked on name brand amplifiers that have a good deal of over building in the design, these amplifiers are often rated for full output with NO time limit. A lot of amp manufactures don’t tell you how long full output can be sustained.

    A lot of low cost and even some high cost amps are already on the edge of their design limitations, it only takes a hot installation position with some heavy high duty cycle music/sound to push them over the edge. Unless you have the circuit with all components listed and you know how to interpret the device data, there is just no way to know how far you can push an amplifier in a less than favourable installation.
    Last edited by Mickz; 10-12-2011 at 11:06 PM. Reason: More Info. NOTE I edited this AFTER soundman replied below, hope he still agrees
    GA-Z77N-WIFI, i5-2400S, 8GB, Intel 520 128GB SSD, M4-ATX Modified, 2 Rev Cams, 2 Web Cams
    8" 16:9 TRANSFLECTIVE, Win8-64, Dual GPS RX and Garmin PC + Odyssey Nav, FM-DAB+, BB-Rec
    T-Screen HVAC control, custom microcontrollers, code and FE. CarPC Project

  4. #54
    MySQL Error soundman98's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    on the border of northern IL/IN
    Posts
    5,848
    ^i agree.

    to put in another simpler way.

    i can promise you that as long as you have a correctly working amp to start with, wiring the speakers like i talked of before(in series) will get the setup to emit audio without damaging any components. the setup will be slightly quieter, but look at that as part of the cost of making what you have work instead of buying new stuff.

  5. #55
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    19
    Gee a nice summation guys, I have to maintain my stand on this matter, you are right in explaining the technical aspects of the amp speaker relationship, but I believe you have the wrong conclusion. The DC resistance load is only a simple way to gauge how to wire your speakers. The impedance of that speaker is the AC resistance which vary s depending mostly on the music played and the passive crossovers on the speakers and the resistance of the wire going to the speakers. When an Amplifier company gives out these spec's they know the capability of their amplifiers. I am in the Car Audio business and most of the Amplifier manufacturers tell me to load the amplifiers up to get their Rated Power. If the Manufacture gives a specification of 2 ohms that means it was tested and approved for use at that rating , and usually with room for variance.(depending on the manufactor) You can play it safe and wire it in series but loading an amplifier into 7 or 8 ohms when its' intended rating is 2~4 ohms would give you less dynamic range and cause amplifier clipping (clipping is where the amplifier goes beyond its' max coutinuous power and then makes what is called clipping distortion which will destroy a speaker faster then too much clean power) before you reach an acceptable volume level. As a matter of fact some manufactors wanted to load their amplifiers into two ohms so much they came out with 2 ohm speakers like JBL and Infinity. They did this so that people would get more power from their 4 channel amps that were designed for a 2 ohm load. Now the only real way to solve this is to try it out if the load is too low for the amplifier it will run too hot to touch in less then 10 min. Amplifiers are designed to run to near 180 degrees hot so if it is quite warm that is fine. If it runs too hot then you will either run it in series or just run the front speakers for now, that will give you an acceptable load of 3 ohms in anybodys book.

  6. #56
    Raw Wave tbird2340's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Poland, OH
    Posts
    2,000
    I purchased a 12" Type R in a box from a dude and he included a brand new Hifonics BXiPRO1.0 Digital Bass Enhancement Processor. I have never used anything like this and don't know if it's worth hooking it up or just hawking it.. I know Hifonics is low end but what do you guys think?

    Should I bother hooking it up?

    My final system will be (depending if I should hook this thing above up):

    Polk MM6501's in the front - 3 ohm
    Polk DB650's in the rear - 4 ohm

    These will be powered by an Alpine MRP-F300 4 Channel Amp

    Then, for my lows I have a 12" Alpine Type R SWR-1223D sub (2 ohm) powered by a MRP-M1000 mono amp.


    If I couple either the lefts into one channel and the rights to the other channel (or couple fronts / backs) would that work?

    Thanks!
    Current Vehicle: 2007 Dodge Nitro

    Second Vehicle: Sold it :( 2005 Dodge Ram 1500 Quad Cab

    First Vehicle: 2003 Ford Ranger

  7. #57
    Raw Wave tbird2340's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Poland, OH
    Posts
    2,000
    One more question.. Currently I have a 4 gauge wire and a 8 gauge wire running from the battery to the back of my car.. The 8 gauge is going directly to the CarPC. The 4 gauge is going to a block and then broken out into (2) 4 gauge (one going to each AMP) and one 12 gauge from that going to a PAC controller..

    The MRP-M1000 calls for 4 gauge so what do you recommend for the least amount of work? I believe the MRP-F300 calls for 8 gauge. I have one of each of those but that leaves nothing for the CarPC..
    Current Vehicle: 2007 Dodge Nitro

    Second Vehicle: Sold it :( 2005 Dodge Ram 1500 Quad Cab

    First Vehicle: 2003 Ford Ranger

  8. #58
    Maximum Bitrate Mickz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    811
    Quote Originally Posted by whip View Post
    Gee a nice summation guys, . If it runs too hot then you will either run it in series or just run the front speakers for now, that will give you an acceptable load of 3 ohms in anybodys book.
    I was going to reply to this, but I feel it's taking away from the OPís thread so Iím going to let it die, the technical description to offset inaccuracies will most likely be wasted space anyway.
    GA-Z77N-WIFI, i5-2400S, 8GB, Intel 520 128GB SSD, M4-ATX Modified, 2 Rev Cams, 2 Web Cams
    8" 16:9 TRANSFLECTIVE, Win8-64, Dual GPS RX and Garmin PC + Odyssey Nav, FM-DAB+, BB-Rec
    T-Screen HVAC control, custom microcontrollers, code and FE. CarPC Project

  9. #59
    MySQL Error soundman98's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    on the border of northern IL/IN
    Posts
    5,848
    Quote Originally Posted by tbird2340 View Post
    I purchased a 12" Type R in a box from a dude and he included a brand new Hifonics BXiPRO1.0 Digital Bass Enhancement Processor. I have never used anything like this and don't know if it's worth hooking it up or just hawking it.. I know Hifonics is low end but what do you guys think?

    Should I bother hooking it up?

    My final system will be (depending if I should hook this thing above up):

    Polk MM6501's in the front - 3 ohm
    Polk DB650's in the rear - 4 ohm

    These will be powered by an Alpine MRP-F300 4 Channel Amp

    Then, for my lows I have a 12" Alpine Type R SWR-1223D sub (2 ohm) powered by a MRP-M1000 mono amp.


    If I couple either the lefts into one channel and the rights to the other channel (or couple fronts / backs) would that work?

    Thanks!
    if you have a 4ch amp, then you can just connect everything the way it was before. if you are going to use the 2ch amp for a while, you would need to connect them like you described, but would need to wire them like this:

    amp + ---->1st speaker + ---->1st speaker - ----->2nd speaker + ----> 2nd speaker - -----> amp -


    bass processor:
    i don't get the impression that you have a strong desire for large doses of bass or anything, so i vote to sell it.

    Quote Originally Posted by tbird2340 View Post
    One more question.. Currently I have a 4 gauge wire and a 8 gauge wire running from the battery to the back of my car.. The 8 gauge is going directly to the CarPC. The 4 gauge is going to a block and then broken out into (2) 4 gauge (one going to each AMP) and one 12 gauge from that going to a PAC controller..

    The MRP-M1000 calls for 4 gauge so what do you recommend for the least amount of work? I believe the MRP-F300 calls for 8 gauge. I have one of each of those but that leaves nothing for the CarPC..
    you can just split the 4ga to feed the amp, and then use a short section of 8ga off that split point to feed the other amp. is it correct? technically no--you should probably run a 1/0 ga cable and split that for the amps, though i am running a similarly setup system--- i use a 4ga input and my amps each have a total of 60A and 80A of fuses(140A total), and i run a 80A main fuse with no issues---though my amps are class d, so the power requirements are different then the class a/b amps that you are considering...

  10. #60
    Raw Wave tbird2340's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Poland, OH
    Posts
    2,000
    Quote Originally Posted by soundman98 View Post
    you can just split the 4ga to feed the amp, and then use a short section of 8ga off that split point to feed the other amp. is it correct? technically no--you should probably run a 1/0 ga cable and split that for the amps, though i am running a similarly setup system--- i use a 4ga input and my amps each have a total of 60A and 80A of fuses(140A total), and i run a 80A main fuse with no issues---though my amps are class d, so the power requirements are different then the class a/b amps that you are considering...
    What do you mean by split the 4 gauge to feed the amp? I have the 4 gauge going into the distro block that has (4) 8 gauge outputs. Sorry, just not visioning what you are saying.

    Thanks
    Current Vehicle: 2007 Dodge Nitro

    Second Vehicle: Sold it :( 2005 Dodge Ram 1500 Quad Cab

    First Vehicle: 2003 Ford Ranger

Similar Threads

  1. Sound Setup? help?
    By outactrl in forum Newbie
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 10-06-2010, 10:06 AM
  2. New sound setup.
    By jaloos in forum Car Audio
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 08-30-2007, 08:56 PM
  3. will this setup sound better than....
    By Dichotomous in forum Car Audio
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 10-13-2006, 09:08 AM
  4. how does this carputer setup sound?
    By psiko_scweek in forum General Hardware Discussion
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 04-05-2005, 09:33 AM
  5. Sound Card Setup
    By gboy in forum Car Audio
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 02-23-2005, 10:17 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •