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Thread: dimming problem

  1. #1
    Newbie Bigmaxxin's Avatar
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    dimming problem

    hey guys, i just need some advice because money has become tight. i have a 96 Grand Cherokee and i just recently put a system in it, it consists of a Rockford Fosgate Power 800.2 amp with 2 Rockford Fosgate T1's, with a Pioneer 8600 deck for right now till i get my comp. any way i have some dimming when im driving at night and the system is doin its thing. i have 0 gauge for both ground and power the whole way back, and also a 0 gauge body ground to my body. now which one of these would be the better bet to fix it. i have a stock 80 amp alt. and a stock battery. now right now i only have money for 1 of the 2, because i want to get a optima yellow top. either that or a 120 amp alt off of a 5.9 liter grand cherokee. please let me know.

    EDIT: also if it helps i have both the subs bridged to 2 ohms, with 4 gauge to each sub.

  2. #2
    Newbie necrolyte's Avatar
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    It'd be best to add a second battery. You would be fine with just adding a 1F cap to the system too, but for an extra few bucks you can have a battery. What is happening is that the amp is drawing more current than the car can souce, so the voltage is dropping hence the dimming of your lights.

    I'd recommend just adding a second battery, no need to upgrade the stock alternator yet

  3. #3
    Newbie Bigmaxxin's Avatar
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    sweet thank you man.

  4. #4
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    agreed that the alternator would be a bit extreeme at this point in time of an upgrade.

    Now, if you get a second battery rather than a farad or two (or three) of capacitance, make sure you get the right type!

    Necrolyte has got 90% of the idea up there. the problem isnt that the amp is drawing more than the car can produce, its that the amp is drawing more than the car can produce at that fraction of a second in time! time becomes fantastically important when trying to diagnose and eliminate dimming. So, when you get that deep cycle battery, chances are greater than not (although not impossible) that you will retain your dimming. deep cycles have slow response times compared to starting batteries, and might more or less do nothing for dimming! a starting battery will act much faster, comparitively. Capacitors are reccommended because they will act faster than any battery, as a general rule.

    anyways, a much better source to read than either of our posts is http://www.betteraudio.com/geolemon/newmain/battcapalt/

    if you read carefully, youll see what each "upgrade" really does, and can choose the best upgrades that will have the greatest effect on dimming versus other charging performance factors for your car, that you may or may not want.

    and good luck!

  5. #5
    Newbie Bigmaxxin's Avatar
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    ok so i think i am going to try 2 things this week, one i am going to get some 0 gauge from my altenator, to my battery, and try a second battery, from one of my other cars, and after reading that article mine isnt displaying the tendancy to dim and not recharge, it dims and comes back almost instantly.

  6. #6
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    might be fine with a one or two farad capacitor, then

  7. #7
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    I would just go for the optima yellowtop, and save you the hassle from getting al the extra hardware needed to connect the extra battery and hooking it up.

    The yellowtop is imho the best battery you can get, I have one installed and run two amplifiers off it, one signat LAB4 and a GroundZero GZPA1.3000D (total rated around 3100W RMS) without any problems!

    OK, have one 1F cap. on the groundzero.

  8. #8
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    A note on the yellow top:

    if you are going to be competing at all in SPL (few people do really) the red top will charge back faster than teh yellow top)

    other than that I believe that's the only difference between the two....very minor

    =]

    On another note: Caps are almost useless unless they are multifarad caps. They discharge too quickly to do any good, and.....think of them as a sink hole in the path of your electricity. As your power is passing though the wires, once the cap has been drained it has to be filled back up to be useful again. The electricity has to fill up the cap before it can be 100% and before you will get 100% of your previous current flow back to your speakers/amps. Now, keep in mind that we are not talking minutes here, we are talking seconds, but the fact of the matter is that a well designed and installed system will never need a cap. Consider a cap a temporary bandaid to a problem that really needs stitches....

    =]
    Jan Bennett
    FS: VW MKIV Bezel for 8" Lilliput - 95% Finished

    Please post on the forums! Chances are, someone else has or will have the same questions as you!

  9. #9
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    I would not recommend to get the redtop instead of the yellowtop, the redtop is a starting battery and the yelowtop is a dual purpose battery (deep cycle and starting battery). The redtop can give a bit more amps, but only for a short while.

    Regarding the capacitor, I do not agree with Red GTI that they are almost useless.
    The capacitor is only there to suply the amplifier with enough power during the kicks of the bassdrum when the battery is to "slow" to keep up with the instant power needs of the amplifier.

    Take some hardcore at 200 bpm, this means around 3.5 beats per second this is one beat every 28ms. The recharge time of a cap. is around 3RC (>95% recharged) for my helix 1F cap. (Ri <1mOhm) this would mean that the cap. is recharged within 3ms.

  10. #10
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    The yellow top is a deep cycle battery, it will fully discarge then fully recharge, but, if you ever have to charge it you have to trickle charge it for a long time. For an every day driver, the red top is the way to go. It recharges faster than the yellow top. For big SPL vehicles that just do 30second burps the yellow top works great. They can hold a charge longer but they take a lot longer to get that charge back. This is fine since those same SPL vehicles sit hooked up to chargers for hours before making a run.

    This from the Interstate Battery representative.

    On a cap, you are correct ABSolute, it's only there to supply the amp with enough power, you are right, but they don't recharge quick enough. Why do you think that there are no comp vehicles running caps? SPL OR SQ. They don't work for what they are designed for in those cases. What I am saying is that it's simply a band-aid to a problem that really needs stitches. You should ALWAYS upgrade your battery, wiring, and if possible your alternator. All you are doing with a cap is prolonging the inevitable a few months. If your car is having problems keeping up with your current draw, a cap is not going to fix the problem. If you don't believe me get on a few of the serious car stereo foums and pick the brains of some of the world champions. They will tell you the exact same things. A cap is NOT a fix all.

    If you had a 50 farad carbon cap, then we would be talking on an entirely different level here.

    =]
    Jan Bennett
    FS: VW MKIV Bezel for 8" Lilliput - 95% Finished

    Please post on the forums! Chances are, someone else has or will have the same questions as you!

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