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Thread: Lets get this debate hashed out once and for all

  1. #11
    MySQL Error scott_fx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkciti
    agreed. If you want a _good_ system, You need rear speakers.

    If you've ever been to a movie theatre and have had someone cough, chomp, or yap behind you- you can easily understand the significance of human hearing and its complete range of perception. Your favorite movie could be blasting in a great scene, but if you have some old lady behind you yapping to her friend, you'll definately notice it.

    Maybe I'm biased because I hate when people behind me talk during a movie...

    Maybe humans hear better behind them than in front of them - I dunno.


    Bottom line: Rear fill is necessary for a quality audio experience.
    if you have spent any time in a mixing studio you'd realize that rear fill isn't necessary... unless you have four ears.

    You think you hear 'better' from behind because she is talking toward you. if she turned around and was in front of you you'd hear her even better.



    I agree you need rear speakers if you want to listen to 5.1 surround (generally speaking) You can achieve surround sound with only two speakers, but you have to be in the sweet spot which isnt practical in a car.

    so if you want to hash it out... for music you only need front stage, for movies you need rear speakers.


    having a sub or not is a mute point, you need one to reproduce the lows regardless of what set up you end up with.

    now preference is a different story. go with what you like
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  2. #12
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    I see your point with the sq setups. I still think a mid ranger driver or 2 in the rear wont hurt. The thing im concerned about is only having a set of components up front. (2 mids 2 tweets). Is this adequate for proper sound quality? 3 sets up front would absolutely work. But im concerned when i see someone ask if they need rear speakers when they arent amping the front ones and only running them off a head unit. Those 2 front speakers are gonna be kinda week then arent they?

  3. #13
    Maximum Bitrate fantomas's Avatar
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    well thats different. i have no rear stage but i certainly amp my front components. if you're running it off the head unit, having rear fill won't be a bad idea...but it won't sound as good.
    rebuilding carpc... kinda..

  4. #14
    Constant Bitrate pate60's Avatar
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    Common lets be real here, for a car audio system, it has to have rears if you want it to sound any good. Surely i've you've been blasting away for years in the front seat you will think its fine.

    However step into a car the has been configured properly and you'll notice the difference straight away.

    I would run 3 way components in the front amped of course, with the tweeter position up high in the cabin. The rears would be 2 way mids, which can be powered from your head deck. Depending on the sound quality of the mids, Iíd probably install a small 8 or 10" sub as well (amped).

    Once its all installed making sure that all the polarities are correct, and that they are pushing and pulling together and not out of sync.

    I know this might sound daft buy play some opera or classic music, push the fader right back, close your eyes, sit how you would in the driverís seat and listen. Slowly increase or decrease the fader until you think it sounds just right.

    Do it a couple of times, and see what kind of number your are getting.

    Make sense?

    This is how the professional do it.

  5. #15
    Constant Bitrate JaxPt's Avatar
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    Its a matter of personal preference, there is no "right way", unless you are going for full surround sound the you do need those rear speakers for the full effect.
    Stereo is defined as "Two channels of audio information recorded and played back in such a way as to recreate a sound stage giving depth and breadth to audio reproduction."

    personally I feel that the rear speakers give the audio more depth but again thats just my personal taste.

    I say do what makes you happy and dont be a sheep
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  6. #16
    FLAC sdashiki's Avatar
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    If you are running a carputer, and you play movies in 5.1 format this whole idea of no back speakers in ludicruz.

    BUt if we just alking musak, I agree its just doubling the amount of sound coming at you, not truly making it high quality or anything. But im not gonna get into my preferences when it comes to music reproduction.

    Just saying that for a good full carputer experience, i think you need 4.1 sound.
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  7. #17
    FLAC
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    My "best" sounding system I ever produced was the simplest also. Before i get into it, let me put a couple disclaimers out...

    Vehicles differ so much in the interior space and positioning that there is NO "one system fits all".

    I'm sure that a complex system with proper tuning can blow the doors off of everything i have EVER built.

    So anyways, My favorite system was in a 90 Honda CRX. It consisted of a Pioneer Premier CD player, a phoenix gold MS275 amplifier, an orion 3 way passive crossover module, MBQuart coaxials in the stock door locations (forget the model number, from the mid 90's) and a MB Quart 10 inch woofer (sealed box, firing up).

    The 3-way passive crossover allows for trimode operation with the amp, meaning that the 2 front speakers received about 100+ watts in stereo. Frequency response was about 200hz and up. The subwoofer received a bridged signal from the amp on everything from 200hz down (I could be off on the freq.). The crossover slopes were at 24db and perfectly matched.

    All and all, sound quality was VERY nice. Imaging/staging were just as nice, in fact I have never been able to get any better even with kickpanels. Cancellation was minimal, rear reflections were on par giving a "surround sound" resonance as you would expect at a concert. All and all, simple and phenominal.

    Now I played and played and played afterwards. I installed 3 ms 275s, doubled up on woofers, put kick panels and seperates in, even put an 8 inch midbass directly behind the center console. I played with 30 band EQs, high voltage line drivers and crossovers. I installed rear fill in mono, stereo and ven played with rear fill processors. I NEVER considered any of the more complex systems to sound better than my original simple solution. It was just louder.

    Back to simple I go =)

  8. #18
    MySQL Error scott_fx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pate60
    Common lets be real here, for a car audio system, it has to have rears if you want it to sound any good. Surely i've you've been blasting away for years in the front seat you will think its fine.

    However step into a car the has been configured properly and you'll notice the difference straight away.

    I would run 3 way components in the front amped of course, with the tweeter position up high in the cabin. The rears would be 2 way mids, which can be powered from your head deck. Depending on the sound quality of the mids, Iíd probably install a small 8 or 10" sub as well (amped).

    Once its all installed making sure that all the polarities are correct, and that they are pushing and pulling together and not out of sync.

    I know this might sound daft buy play some opera or classic music, push the fader right back, close your eyes, sit how you would in the driverís seat and listen. Slowly increase or decrease the fader until you think it sounds just right.

    Do it a couple of times, and see what kind of number your are getting.

    Make sense?

    This is how the professional do it.

    a friend of mine who competes in sq competitions told me that there are rarely any trophy winning systems with rear fill speakers.
    New System in progress:
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    Phaze TD1500 ~> Dynaudio MD130
    Phaze TD1500 ~> Seas g18rnx/p
    Zapco Ref 500.1 ~ 12" tc-9
    Behringer DCX2496 ~ Envision Electronics psu
    Transflective Xenarc

    My Car Pc Install
    My Boat Pc worklog

  9. #19
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    a friend of mine who competes in sq competitions told me that there are rarely any trophy winning systems with rear fill speakers.
    Is this becuase it doesnt sound as good or because one person said it doesnt and many others followed? Not poking fun just wondering

    I will always use rear fill for one simple reason...Noise Ordinance violations. Sounds stupid but hear me out. I dont always have my subs on providing bass for me. Which when the subs are on it cancels out almost all rear fill in my opinoin. But i really do want the rear fill when the subs arent on to fill in.

    I do have a small xtended cab truck though. I think they are a hard vehicle to get staging setup right in. So the rear fill helps out a lot with this.

    Keep the opinoins coming guys. Im really glad to see everyones opinoins/knowledge on this subject

  10. #20
    Variable Bitrate mutilator's Avatar
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    well i dont know jack about sq but here goes.

    in my last mini, i had components in the front, amped, 6x9s in the back (only cus the rears were 6x9s as standard) which were amped also, and i had 2x10" subwoofers, also amped.
    when running off either a headunit or a pc it sounded great. the amp powering the rears died once, and i could definatley tell the difference, to me it didnt sound as good.

    on the other hand, my bro has his rear speakers amped, 2x subs amped, and his front speakers are still standard and powered from the headunit (while he saves for more speakers of course) you cannot really hear his front speakers, and its sounds terrible.

    tom.

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