PG Octane 5.1 v. Alpine DSP...

**3onDubs** · 12-05-2005, 01:33 PM

I am in the process of moving to a digital setup and am fairly convinced of getting an Alpine 701 DSP, but the only problem is the high price associated with it.

I found a Phoenix Gold - Octane-R Series 5.1 Amplifier that normally goes for $1200 that is selling for $324 and I thought this was a hell of a deal. It gives 100W per channel (which should be enough i think) and it has 4.1 support with phantom processing for the center channel. It also takes in SPIDF coax, so you wouldnt need an optical converter. You also wouldn't need to mount any hardware up front because the amp handles everything.

My question is, if I use this amp, would it be possible to run a seperate amp for my subs?

I know that the only way to split the digital input is via a DSP like the alpine, but does anyone know of a way to use the subchannel (which is only 200W on this amp) as an input to another amp. I don't think this amp has sub pre-outs because it doesnt mention that anywhere in the specs. I know that alpine makes the D550 that has a sub-preout, but this amp is way too weak on all channels and is way overpriced compared to the PG octane

I'm sorry if this question demonstrates my lack of expertise in the way that amps work.

**Will Albers** · 12-05-2005, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by 3onDubs

I found a Phoenix Gold - Octane-R Series 5.1 Amplifier that normally goes for $1200 that is selling for $324 and I thought this was a hell of a deal. It gives 100W per channel (which should be enough i think) and it has 4.1 support with phantom processing for the center channel. It also takes in SPIDF coax, so you wouldnt need an optical converter. You also wouldn't need to mount any hardware up front because the amp handles everything.

Holy inflated numbers batman!!! The amp has been out of production for about a year. If you can find a new one, you are lucky. They sold new for the $350+ for a LONG time, someone was yanking your chain on $1200. They offer 18w x 5 and about 100 w for the sub (not sure on sub, know its low). All and all, not enough power for anyone except the mom van.

Originally Posted by 3onDubs

My question is, if I use this amp, would it be possible to run a seperate amp for my subs?
.

I think it has an sub bypass, so yes

Originally Posted by 3onDubs

I know that the only way to split the digital input is via a DSP like the alpine, but does anyone know of a way to use the subchannel (which is only 200W on this amp) as an input to another amp. I don't think this amp has sub pre-outs because it doesnt mention that anywhere in the specs. I know that alpine makes the D550 that has a sub-preout, but this amp is way too weak on all channels and is way overpriced compared to the PG octane

I'm sorry if this question demonstrates my lack of expertise in the way that amps work.

Depends on what you want to use the amp for... Look into the hifonics 5.1 or use a processor and multiple amps.

**3onDubs** · 12-05-2005, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by Will Albers

They offer 18w x 5 and about 100 w for the sub

The one I was looking at was shooting 100W per channel and 200W for the sub...heres the link:

http://www.imageaudio.co.nz/index.ph...b65161e8d405f4

That link doesn't give the wattage, but here's one that does:

http://store.bluelagoonusa.com/phgoocr56cha.html

Whatcha think? Does this one look like it offeres a sub bypass?

**DoubleC** · 12-05-2005, 02:47 PM

The amp actually puts out 50X5 RMS @ 14.4 volts the 18X5 is @ 12 Volts which the amp will never normally run at. the Sub Channel is 100X1 RMS at 14.4 not enough for anything really

Here is a link to the actual manual for the amp has all the info you should need to figure out if it is the one you want.

ftp://208.187.38.55/Phoenix_Gold/Man...1MT_manual.pdf

It does come with a sub out RCA I would say just go with a mono D amp for your sub and run this for the rest of your setup. Don't really know what speakers you are running though so depends on them.

**Will Albers** · 12-05-2005, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by 3onDubs

The one I was looking at was shooting 100W per channel and 200W for the sub...heres the link:

http://www.imageaudio.co.nz/index.ph...b65161e8d405f4

New Zealand dollars (imageaudio.co.NZ)

Originally Posted by 3onDubs

That link doesn't give the wattage, but here's one that does:

http://store.bluelagoonusa.com/phgoocr56cha.html

Whatcha think? Does this one look like it offers a sub bypass?

This link is quoting peak power. trust me, its 18w x 5 + 1x38 RMS... and yes, it has a sub out. Its the 2nd from the right on the bottom.

http://www.cardomain.com/item/PHOR51MT

The above poster is correct on 12.5 vs 14.

**3onDubs** · 12-05-2005, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by Will Albers

This link is quoting peak power. trust me, its 18w x 5 + 1x38 RMS... and yes, it has a sub out. Its the 2nd from the right on the bottom.

That sucks, i was getting excited...18W is pathetic. My capacitor reads anywhere between 12.3 - 12.7 on average, so I would probably be getting around 20W per channel which wouldn't even beat most headunits.
I guess I'll stick with the Alpine...

One more question, the perfomance teknique ICBM 5.1...does it really do 75W @ 4 ohms, or is this overestimated as well? Also, does it have a sub pre-out?

**Will Albers** · 12-05-2005, 07:21 PM

its poop.

Look at the hifonics (which is slightly less smelly poop) or go processor

**3onDubs** · 12-06-2005, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by Will Albers

its poop.

Look at the hifonics (which is slightly less smelly poop) or go processor

Thanks for the help Will...one more question before I go with a DSP for sure....the alpine MRA-F350 advertises 50W x 5 @ 4 ohms. I figure that alpine is reputable and this is the actual power output...will 50W on each channel be enough to run a quality system? Ill be using a different amp for my subs, but this amp would need to run my component and coax kenwood excellons (which I might upgrade to either MB quarts or Focal Utopias in the near future).

Two options:
1. Alpine MRA-F350: ~$300
2. Alpine H701 + RUX Controller: ~$600

With option 1, I run 50W a channel but have one less device and no need for a controller up front

With option 2, I can keep my excellon amp with 100W per channel and have more control of my sounds...also allows for future flexibility.

Questions: Would 50W be enough? Is the extra $300 worth it?

**Will Albers** · 12-06-2005, 09:49 PM

Originally Posted by 3onDubs

Thanks for the help Will...one more question before I go with a DSP for sure....the alpine MRA-F350 advertises 50W x 5 @ 4 ohms. I figure that alpine is reputable and this is the actual power output...will 50W on each channel be enough to run a quality system? Ill be using a different amp for my subs, but this amp would need to run my component and coax kenwood excellons (which I might upgrade to either MB quarts or Focal Utopias in the near future).

Two options:
1. Alpine MRA-F350: ~$300
2. Alpine H701 + RUX Controller: ~$600

With option 1, I run 50W a channel but have one less device and no need for a controller up front

With option 2, I can keep my excellon amp with 100W per channel and have more control of my sounds...also allows for future flexibility.

Questions: Would 50W be enough? Is the extra $300 worth it?

50 watts of true power is usually plenty. But i cannot simply answer your question. It has everything to do with the speakers your choose and their efficiency. a perfect system would run the 50 watts to 5 identical speakers. When you start mixing and matching you have to make sure the efficiency of the speakers are close to one another. A difference of 3db is VERY noticable. my guess is that you should run the processor for flexibility down the road. If you were buying everything you needed right now we could be more flexible.

**3onDubs** · 12-07-2005, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by Will Albers

50 watts of true power is usually plenty. But i cannot simply answer your question. It has everything to do with the speakers your choose and their efficiency. a perfect system would run the 50 watts to 5 identical speakers. When you start mixing and matching you have to make sure the efficiency of the speakers are close to one another. A difference of 3db is VERY noticable. my guess is that you should run the processor for flexibility down the road. If you were buying everything you needed right now we could be more flexible.

Thanks for all your help...I ended up buying the Alpine H701/C701. I'll probably look to upgrade my excellon components in the near future as well...looking at either Diamond Hex's or MB Quart Premiums. I figured that I have a really nice amp for my insides already and it would be a shame not to put it to good use...