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Thread: Episode 2

  1. #1
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    Episode 2

    Just listened to podcast number 2....don't take this the wrong way guys but can you do a little research before you discuss some of these topics.

    A few corrections...because I have a feeling this is going to confuse some listeners:
    • No Cars are steer-by-wire, safety legislation in quite a few countries prevents anything other then electric assist.
    • 384MB of RAM? thats really your advice?
    • Memory latency has nothing to do with memory size
    • CPU Speed has nothing to do with hibernation resume times, its system bus speed
    • 2x as much ram does not mean 2x slower resume (google: memory pages)
    • OM never claimed CF didn't use any hardware rendering...it uses a combination of directX and software rendering (or all software rendering if effects are disabled) which obviously uses more CPU then 100% hardware rendering
    • Pulseaudio sounds better? you sure its not just that warm fuzzy feeling you get from running linux? 24bit audio is 24bit audio... the only difference is the decoders. Except everyone uses the same open source decoder for flac so it can't be that either.
    • For the thousandth time-trip was running OM without video drivers on the iGep-of course its going to be slow.... C# may be slower with serious number crunching but last I checked we're not doing physics simulations in the car. Not to mention almost all our graphics code is unmanaged.
    • Qt cross-platform development != all cross platform development
    • 30 active front ends? try 6
    • Mike-you haven't seen anyone separate the GUI from the backend?? I seem to recall a front end that runs each plugin in a separate thread and runs nothing but the GUI in the gui thread. Come on dude we've discussed this!
    • You can't close source GPLv3 code...no matter what. Did the biggest open source supporters on the forums really suggest that?
    • Hmm front end with cross-platform media playback engine written from scratch-nope CF uses Bass and WMP...OM is the only one that does. No we don't use mplayer or any other external app-that would be slow and unstable.


    On the other hand:
    • Tidder props for memorizing the model names lol
    • Tidder - Thank you for setting the record straight on quite a few issues
    • Microsoft Bob-lmao
    • regurgitate was a much better word choice then reiterate

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    And then I was mod. Tidder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justchat_1 View Post
    Just listened to podcast number 2....don't take this the wrong way guys but can you do a little research before you discuss some of these topics.

    A few corrections...because I have a feeling this is going to confuse some listeners:

    *snip*
    First of all let me just say that most everything I said or had an opinion about comes from first-hand experience. There is no need for me to research it, it'd probably be posts of mine if I researched it anyway.

    Yes, in my experience and testing, PulseAudio sounds a lot more full and crisp than the same exact FLAC on windows. There is a lot of forum posts that support this idea. Windows mixer (kmixer) is a pile of junk. Talk to RedGTiVR6 about sound quality. I use windows and linux all the time. The warm-fuzzy left 3 or 4 years ago a little while after I first started using ubuntu. The only way to get this quality back out of windows is using ideas/solutions like ASIO drivers/programs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_Stream_Input/Output This is at least true for XP. Kmixer resamples EVERYTHING to 48khz, and does a horrible job at it. Vista and newer have a new mixer that apparently doesn't suffer from this. I don't want to run vista or newer in the car. I'd rather have a headless linux box in the trunk.

    Yes, 384mb ram in my experience has been the best exchange of speed vs ram size. Slimmed XP with RR, this has been perfect for me for a long time. I even turn off swap and have no issues. iGuidance, RR, web browsing, remote desktop, etc. No problems so far.

    I don't know that we were actually saying CPU speed affects resume times. This was more about installed ram sizes.

    What does OM use for the media engine? I was under the impression it uses WMP under windows since it only supports media types that WMP supports.

    We weren't talking about close sourcing GPL code, more like going commercial with closed source addons and support.

    And yes, thanks for the props. I pride myself on knowing exactly what hardware I've got or used in the past.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tidder View Post
    Yes, in my experience and testing, PulseAudio sounds a lot more full and crisp than the same exact FLAC on windows. There is a lot of forum posts that support this idea. Windows mixer (kmixer) is a pile of junk. Talk to RedGTiVR6 about sound quality. I use windows and linux all the time. The warm-fuzzy left 3 or 4 years ago a little while after I first started using ubuntu. The only way to get this quality back out of windows is using ideas/solutions like ASIO drivers/programs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_Stream_Input/Output This is at least true for XP. Kmixer resamples EVERYTHING to 48khz, and does a horrible job at it. Vista and newer have a new mixer that apparently doesn't suffer from this. I don't want to run vista or newer in the car. I'd rather have a headless linux box in the trunk.
    Your comparing pulseaudio (first available in 2007) to a 10 year old windows OS...obviously the technology will not be equal. If you compared it to vista or win7 you will find a superior audio system to even pulseaudio (not released until a year after vista rolled out the technology). Just want to make sure the records straight on that

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    North of the land of Hey Huns
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    Justin, we actually toyed with the idea of bringing you on. Perhaps you might want to sit in on the next one?

    [*]No Cars are steer-by-wire, safety legislation in quite a few countries prevents anything other then electric assist.
    Yeah I meant wire assist. You can use the assist to drive the vehicle though, with no human intervention required (we do it at my work that way)

    [*]Qt cross-platform development != all cross platform development
    No, but it is the only one we have experience with, and its arguably the most advanced out there.

    [*]Mike-you haven't seen anyone separate the GUI from the backend?? I seem to recall a front end that runs each plugin in a separate thread and runs nothing but the GUI in the gui thread. Come on dude we've discussed this!
    Maybe it got lost in the editing, but I said I wasn't entirely sure how openmobile handled this, and it was all I could attribute the slowness issues I had due to ignorance of how it works internally.
    "stop with the REINSTALLS, what do you think we got some lame-o installer!!!" - mitchjs
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    Just finished Episode 2, Tidder was a nice addition and you guys did a good job not talking over each other. Keep up the good work, I'm enjoying it.

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    And then I was mod. Tidder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justchat_1 View Post
    Your comparing pulseaudio (first available in 2007) to a 10 year old windows OS...obviously the technology will not be equal. If you compared it to vista or win7 you will find a superior audio system to even pulseaudio (not released until a year after vista rolled out the technology). Just want to make sure the records straight on that
    I would need something substantial to prove that to me. I'm not impressed with windows 7 at all, especially for car use. Playback of FLAC under 7 also stutters on my D945GCLF2, no matter what player or codec I try. ALSA and PulseAudio are still better imo. There is no record to set straight, podcasts aren't set in stone facts. They are fact-supported or experience-supported opinions from knowledgeable people. But what you are doing is exactly the response I wanted from the community on a lot of the topics I brought up... "What?! No way, Tidder's an idiot..." and then they'll research it for themselves and gain something.
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    And then I was mod. Tidder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
    Just finished Episode 2, Tidder was a nice addition and you guys did a good job not talking over each other. Keep up the good work, I'm enjoying it.
    Well thanks! And I must say... we talked over each other a lot... my master editing skills really turned this into a nice podcast. Sorry about Mike's volume level, we'll get better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tidder View Post
    I would need something substantial to prove that to me. I'm not impressed with windows 7 at all, especially for car use. Playback of FLAC under 7 also stutters on my D945GCLF2, no matter what player or codec I try. ALSA and PulseAudio are still better imo. There is no record to set straight, podcasts aren't set in stone facts. They are fact-supported or experience-supported opinions from knowledgeable people. But what you are doing is exactly the response I wanted from the community on a lot of the topics I brought up... "What?! No way, Tidder's an idiot..." and then they'll research it for themselves and gain something.
    I tried Win7 in the car recently, there's not much advantage to using it over XP. I also has issues with sutters and pops in the audio, but my particular issue was I believe due to poor driver support for by M-Audio than anything else. I wouldn't mind having hybrid sleep available to me as an option, but not at the expense of audio quality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by justchat_1 View Post
    [LIST][*]No Cars are steer-by-wire, safety legislation in quite a few countries prevents anything other then electric assist.
    -Sorry, that was me

    Quote Originally Posted by justchat_1 View Post
    [*]Memory latency has nothing to do with memory size
    -I wish I could prove this, but I can't at the moment.

    Quote Originally Posted by justchat_1 View Post
    [*]30 active front ends? try 6
    -Well, approx in usage. Active as in meaning still having users, not in dev.

    Quote Originally Posted by justchat_1 View Post
    [*] Microsoft Bob-lmao
    -Im a dork, sorry.....

  10. #10
    North of the land of Hey Huns
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    Quote Originally Posted by ioi8 View Post
    -I wish I could prove this, but I can't at the moment.
    I wish I could prove the sky is purple....
    "stop with the REINSTALLS, what do you think we got some lame-o installer!!!" - mitchjs
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