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Thread: Advice for system??

  1. #11
    PPE
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    Here are some screenshots for you:





    Brian @ Palmer Performance Engineering, Inc.
    http://www.palmerperformance.com

  2. #12
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    Hmmm, I don't think the acceleration testing or dyno capabiliteis are advertised on your site. Maybe I just need to look harder.

    Ahhh, I see the screenshot on the homepage but it is not acknowledged in the feature list. You might want to add the accelerationtest/dyno to the feature page as it could be a deciding factor for some people (i.e. me).

  3. #13
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    You're right, I need to get that updated! Right now, only our forum contains the new feature information about PCMSCAN. I focus most of my time on adding cool new software features and making the software as robust and bug free as is possible. The competition is always playing catch up.

    -Brian
    Brian @ Palmer Performance Engineering, Inc.
    http://www.palmerperformance.com

  4. #14
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    Thanks for all the input; you guys are really helpful. Joel, you sure build a strong case for Digimoto. I am not set on getting a ELM based hardware. I want the most advanced hardware I can afford. As I said at the beginning, I have no experience with OBD and I知 confused. As I understand it OBDII is strictly emissions but emissions can give us an idea to the condition of our engines. Maybe OBDII is enough! You claim that Digimoto is better than the base package of AutoEnginuity. It will cost me $400 to get what I think I need from AutoEnginuity but maybe I don稚 need all of that. I知 thinking a lot about your product.
    You are leading me to believe that OBDPro is just another flavor of ELM. Is that correct? From what I知 reading OBDPro is like 4 times faster than EML and can monitor the network traffic in my car. It sounds like speed changes are very simple and it has the capabilities to also send messages to the sensors. It sounds like if Paul is able to change the chip into a raw data feed I can just send my interface back and get it flashed. I知 having trouble finding a lot of information on the mOByDic interface. Let痴 assume for a moment that Digimoto is the best software and I知 going to use it. How does mOByDic compare to OBDPro working with your software?
    Thanks for your time,
    steve

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by sseverett View Post
    You are leading me to believe that OBDPro is just another flavor of ELM. Is that correct? From what I知 reading OBDPro is like 4 times faster than EML and can monitor the network traffic in my car. It sounds like speed changes are very simple and it has the capabilities to also send messages to the sensors. It sounds like if Paul is able to change the chip into a raw data feed I can just send my interface back and get it flashed. I知 having trouble finding a lot of information on the mOByDic interface. Let痴 assume for a moment that Digimoto is the best software and I知 going to use it. How does mOByDic compare to OBDPro working with your software?
    Thanks for your time,
    steve

    Looking forward to the book on this one!!

    Digimoto lite is my favorite software in my small freeware arsenal right now. Used it several times this week already. It is just plain and simple easy to use. I just wish it had a few more features. I am curious as to how Digimoto 5.0 works out. If it seems pretty good, I may just have to cough up the cash later on.

  6. #16
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    I need to address your comments one at a time. I apologize in advance if this post seems lengthy, but I want to be as clear as I possibly can.

    First I will address the OBDPro interface ~ I would appreciate it if Paul or a customer that owns the OBDPro interface would correct me if I am wrong in anything I say. The OBDPro interface was designed to emulate the ELM chip. The reason it was designed this way is so it could leverage the existing software base out there and provide Paul a means to an immediate market. Without software, the hardware is useless. I believe, because of the methods Paul is using to emulate the ELM interface; the device will communicate at about the same speed as the ELM. If it communicates faster then the ELM, I would be impressed, but not surprised. There are three big differences between Paul's interface from OBDPro.com and other interfaces that use real ELM chips built by Elm Electronics (elmelectronics.com). The first difference is that Elm Electronics has been developing, selling and testing these chips for years now, Paul is new to the industry and does not have the OBDII experience that a larger company like Elm Electronics has ~ there are pros and cons to that and how much experience is really needed to build a solid OBDII interface is relative. From what I have seen, Paul seems to have been, and continues to do a fantastic job at building an OBDII interface. The second difference is the price. Paul sells one of the cheapest all in one interfaces (if not the cheapest) that you can find on the market today. If he is offering an interface that does the same thing, runs at the same speeds, supports the same protocols for $40 less then resellers of ELM based hardware... then that is where my money would go. The final difference is in commitment and development of a product. Paul has been extremely responsive and open to modifying his hardware and listening to his customers. It took Elm Electronics two years to add CAN capabilities to their chips, much longer then it took other competitive companies. Perhaps there was not enough pressure on them to make the changes? I do not know.

    Regarding Digimoto's capabilities with the ELM ~ we support the ELM product line directly, but we run into issues from time to time with ELM emulated chips ~ sometimes they do not function according to the ELM specs as precisely as you would think. We are currently working out a known bug with the older Car-Pal interfaces distributed by Vital Engineering (another ELM emulator). We have not put a lot of time into testing against the OBDPro interface so I can not say for certain the results. We will be putting in the time to take a look at this interface further shortly.

    On to the mOByDic: When we started doing business with Ozen Elektroniks (manufacturers of the mOByDic chipset) our #1 reason for doing so was the fact we needed to offer our customers CAN capabilities. Something that was not available through ELM at the time. The product did not have a large name for itself, but the product was solid, it was fast and it offered features other hardware products did not. The reason you will not see many people selling or supporting this interface, outside of Digimoto, is because we have an agreement with the manufacturer of this hardware that locks us in as the only US distributor of this product line. Anyone with $500, an eBay account and a desire to make a few bucks can resell ELM interfaces, but you will not find another company within the USA selling the mOByDic based interfaces unless we have directly approved it ~ and currently we have no such agreements. There are other resellers of the mOByDic based interfaces in other countries, but the USA sports one of the largest OBDII communities around (it is where OBDII standards were born).

    Working with raw numbers I have found Digimoto to run against a mOByDic interface pulling at 17-18 times a second against a VPW supported vehicle. I found Digimoto was able to pull 4-5 times a second using the ELM interface against the same vehicle (most software applications, because of how they are developed, will pull slower then this, none will pull faster). The differences when comparing the two interfaces against a CAN supported vehicle are much greater. I do not have hard numbers for the OBDPro interface, but I would be interested to know more myself.

    Regarding our 5.0 software: It is difficult for me to pitch a product in beta, but it is a strong product regardless. Within a few weeks we will make our move to retail and slowly phase out our 4.x application. We will be releasing a new Digimoto Lite based on the 5.0 software as well. Most likely a much better version of the Digimoto Lite being offered now. Not a lot of people know about our 5.0 application although we have been in beta for about 2 months with it. If you spend the time to really look closely at the products that are available, not take them for face value, but research them in detail, see what they are offering, the advantages and disadvantages to each I think you will find in the end you will be pleased with your choice. The bottom line is, Digimoto 5.0 at this point is one of cheapest, if not the cheapest, retail OBDII application that exists, yet it is one of the most powerful. Digimoto also has a user base of well over 10,000 licensed users ~ that does not include the people using our Digimoto Lite (freeware) application. There are not many other OBDII diagnostic solution providers that can say that.

    A link to our Digimoto 5.0 features and screenshots:
    http://forums.digimoto.com/shwmessag...MessageID=3018

    A link to our Digimoto 5.0 release notes:
    http://forums.digimoto.com/shwmessag...MessageID=3045

  7. #17
    VENDOR - OBDPros
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    I concur with most of Joel's dissertation (nicely done)

    On VPW the OBDPro can get about 12-14 updates in 1 second this is using the higher baud rates 56K and above. I will run a dedicated test tomorrow morning and post the numbers I get. The problem is this number depends on a number of external factors so it really does not mean a whole lot.

    For example a number of the newer GM vehicles 2002 and above have an extremely busy VPW bus, this means that the interface has to wait for a chance to get a shot at talking on the bus and if there are higher priority messages waiting to get in there, the OBD II interface will just have to wait it's turn, so no matter how fast you can theoretically pump out messages these external factors will play a role.

    Another thing to consider - For a lot of the parameters - RPM, speed etc - how critical is the frequency of updates? I realize that everyone wants more speed but not everyone buy's a Ferrari , What I mean is that as always you should balance price vs performance.


    Paul
    www.obdpros.com

  8. #18
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    Paul, that's a very good point. These numbers really do not mean anything unless they are all measured against each other on similar systems, with similar software. However, there is a big difference between 18 queries a second and 5 queries a second. It might not mean that much when the software is querying a single sensor, but when you turn on 5-10 sensors and you want a reasonable response time to those requests, response time does make a difference... a significant one ~ also the type of sensors you might be querying will make a difference on how quickly you need a response ~ finally consider performance statistics against figures that are being handed to you ever 200ms, that type of delay makes a big difference in performance monitoring. I have not seen an ELM query any vehicle, unless it was CAN based, faster then 5 times a second. If your interfaces can query faster then that, it's a huge feature Paul. Let me know your test results, if you do get 15 queries a second against a live vehicle I will be sincerely impressed.

    I agree with your statement on price vs. performance ~ it is a solid point and is definitely something every person needs to consider when they start thinking about spending $ on tools and toys. It all depends on what you need and what you plan on using the tools for ~ and as sweet as a deal I think Digimoto is , it will not always be my recommendation as a solution to someones needs. There are a lot of good options out there.

  9. #19
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    Joel,
    Thanks for the information on the comparison between the interfaces. Does Digimoto have oscilloscope functions so that I can watch both O2 sensors and compare them? Does is read every thing on the network or just OBDII related? Do you have a date when your are releasing Digimoto 5 for purchase by new customers?
    I must say Joel I think you have won me over!
    steve

  10. #20
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    We currently allow you to pull data from oxygen sensors supported by your vehicle through OBDII. We do not currently have support for an external Oscilliscope to retrieve raw data, however we have plans to add this functionality (the adapter may be a bit pricey, we are working on it). We do allow access to all oxygen sensor data that is available through your vehicle including mode 05 oxygen sensor test result data (an important feature).

    If you purchase 4.03 right now, you will get licensing for the current Digimoto 5.0 beta and you will get the final release when we post it (a couple weeks).

    On a side note, once 5.0 is out we will be raising the price a bit, we are currently running a sale that will end at that point.

    One final thing, It has been posted, but I see a lot of sales come through that I believe are from mp3car, but they do not have the mp3car discount code we created for this forum a while back. Keep in mind we offer a 15% discount for mp3car forum members ~ discount code: mp3car15.

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