View Poll Results: Which way should I route air flow

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  • Suck in cool air

    9 45.00%
  • Suck out hot air

    11 55.00%
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Thread: Looking for opinions. Better to suck hot air or push cool air?

  1. #11
    Variable Bitrate mayhembdm666's Avatar
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    You could complicate things a little by using something like the fans and elements/plates that are used in 12v coolers. Then have yourself a isolated temp circuit that will apply a fan to the cooling element if the temp is to high and still have the other fan always running so it will suck in or blow in cool air or car temp.

    I have seen some weird designs when it comes to fan based cooling systems, A lot that have used adapting tubes and multipliers/dividers. Say a wind tunnel of three or four 120mm pc fans all in series sealed with a filter at the air in sections. The output/blow would large single tubes/molds to lots of tiny targeted tubes and molds. The box itself if you have one can be more or less airtight except for the plumping. Then added to all of that was their methods of cooling & heating , From elements to liquids.

    Ideally i am wanting to follow this setup but will be a slow and sure way to control the overall temp and maintain a range during all extremes.
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  2. #12
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    I went to big lots and bought 2 solar-powered fans; they hang off the windows and suck the hot air out of the vehicle: $5 each .....
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldSpark View Post
    Suck in & suck out?
    Don't you mean blow in cool or suck out warmer?
    yes i meant blow in cool air and suck out hot air. I was typing on my iPod Touch when i wrote this post and i was just about out of battery so i was in a hurry lol

    Quote Originally Posted by mayhembdm666 View Post
    You could complicate things a little by using something like the fans and elements/plates that are used in 12v coolers. Then have yourself a isolated temp circuit that will apply a fan to the cooling element if the temp is to high and still have the other fan always running so it will suck in or blow in cool air or car temp.

    I have seen some weird designs when it comes to fan based cooling systems, A lot that have used adapting tubes and multipliers/dividers. Say a wind tunnel of three or four 120mm pc fans all in series sealed with a filter at the air in sections. The output/blow would large single tubes/molds to lots of tiny targeted tubes and molds. The box itself if you have one can be more or less airtight except for the plumping. Then added to all of that was their methods of cooling & heating , From elements to liquids.

    Ideally i am wanting to follow this setup but will be a slow and sure way to control the overall temp and maintain a range during all extremes.
    I've considered doing some sort of radiator system, but honestly i just BARELY have enough space in the din for all the components that are in there now.

    Quote Originally Posted by SaiLong View Post
    I went to big lots and bought 2 solar-powered fans; they hang off the windows and suck the hot air out of the vehicle: $5 each .....
    I've considered those, but i'd really like something automated. I've got a fusion brain and can adjust the fan speed of multiple fans in my setup by varying the voltage. Right now i'm doing this manually but i'd like to use my thermosensors to get this process automated.
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  4. #14
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    I think it's more important to plan the air circulation. Both openings (cool in/hot out) should have roughly the same size, or if you use just one fan, the smaller hole should be get the fan. If there is no air pressure, the fan sucking out will just move air from the nearest hole (even if it's smaller, that's just mean the air will move faster). So it's better to blow directly into the closest hot component. But again, air will only circulate if there's an air pressure. If the case if full of "vent" holes, that's not good for air pressure, it's better to have them closed and put a sucking fan on the other side sucking air out, but if there's no fan, the biggest hole should be as far away from the blowing fan as possible. Not sure if I made myself clear.

    Also, if the computer is in the trunk, I would use wood for the case, or mount the MB over wood. That helps a lot when the car sits in the sun.

  5. #15
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    Back in the goo ol days, we took the driver's cabin and welded it all shut. mounted the windshield on a metal frame and screwed the frame onto the glass mount. The wiring harness and mechanical linkages were heavily sealed and we presurized the cabin, like an aircraft. The environmental systems were set up in a way that the pressure was just enough to keep the cabin at a steady temperature all the time.

    This was a complex system, dont get me wrong. We had to do some serious work on the doors, and trust the electrical system not to fail, because the doors had electro-mechanical bolts that held the doors shut/aligned/tight against the seal.

    When the cabin was fully pressurized, it was an experience in itself. the temperature was perfect. I dont see any benefit aside the temperature, and it took us forever to stop the air leaks. Plus the dangers of not being able to hear whats happenning outside the vehicle.
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  6. #16
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    What matters is air movement whether blown in or sucked out. While it might make a slight difference, I think what is more important is to be sure that cooler air flows over the heat sink.

    Try it the easiest way and see if that bring the temps back in line. If so, you are good to go.

    However, I would point out that if the components are running at substantially higher temps, unless the input air is quite different in temperature you may be forced to go with water cooling -especially since summertime use will definitely put more strain on it.
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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bugbyte View Post
    However, I would point out that if the components are running at substantially higher temps, unless the input air is quite different in temperature you may be forced to go with water cooling -especially since summertime use will definitely put more strain on it.
    water cooling wont help for multiple components, its usually designed for one, maybe 2 localized hotspots and its really geared towards removing lots of power. you have inherent losses in a water cooled system and for the most part a properly design air cooling solution can do just as good and usually better when looking at the power dissipation levels that are seen in modern day cpus. remember, the water still has to dump the heat to ambient air so it doesnt do much good in the larger scope of things.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bugbyte View Post
    What matters is air movement whether blown in or sucked out. While it might make a slight difference, I think what is more important is to be sure that cooler air flows over the heat sink.

    Try it the easiest way and see if that bring the temps back in line. If so, you are good to go.

    However, I would point out that if the components are running at substantially higher temps, unless the input air is quite different in temperature you may be forced to go with water cooling -especially since summertime use will definitely put more strain on it.

    Thats easily the most important point here....its not just moving air, its where.

    Quote Originally Posted by surfntomm View Post
    water cooling wont help for multiple components, its usually designed for one, maybe 2 localized hotspots and its really geared towards removing lots of power. you have inherent losses in a water cooled system and for the most part a properly design air cooling solution can do just as good and usually better when looking at the power dissipation levels that are seen in modern day cpus. remember, the water still has to dump the heat to ambient air so it doesnt do much good in the larger scope of things.
    Not at all true. Basic physics says water will conduct more heat then air. More importantly though, is instead of trying to radiate the head in the very small area of a CPU (at a heatsink) you can radiate the heat from a much larger surface area (a radiator).

  9. #19
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    this excerpt taken from an electronics cooling magazine "It is also important to consider fan placement in the enclosure. Pressurizing the enclosure is the preferred method, since incoming air can bereadily filtered. In addition, a pressurized enclosure will prevent dustentering through cracks or crevices. The fan is also handling cooler, denserair, and it will therefore have a slightly higher pressure capability (this maybe a very slight advantage for low heat dissipating systems). An importantfeature of a pressurized system is that the fan life and reliability areincreased due to the fan ambient temperature being lower. The disadvantage ofpressurization is that heat generated by the fan is dissipated into the enclosure."

    low power fans = pressurize your enclosure.

    for those not aware, your fan power is its voltage x current...ball park for <2 watts for a fan.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by justchat_1 View Post
    Basic physics says water will conduct more heat then air. More importantly though, is instead of trying to radiate the head in the very small area of a CPU (at a heatsink) you can radiate the heat from a much larger surface area (a radiator).
    while this is certainly true you have additional thermal resistances in a water cooling setup.

    if you start at the heatspreader above the die, with air cooling you have contact, thermal interface material, contact, heatsink. with water cooling you have all the above but include water block to water, water to radiator.

    so assuming that your heatsink fin design is comparable to the radiators, which is not a bad assumption for modest water cooling solutions and the fact that you are dumping your heat to the same temp air (if your radiator was outside the car, this would help upon startup but is not useful).

    lastly watercooling is very localized and you are limited to what components you can actually remove heat from due to its bulk.

    point is watercooling can be way better than air but in low power applications in a car, air cooling will be your best bet.

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