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  • Forcing Newbies to search

    I think that for every user that has a newbie status, there should be an intermediate screen that tells them to search first since most subjects are covered. if they choose not to, they can be flamed.
    Current:
    [BMW E46 ///M3 Convertible]

    Previous:
    [BMW E31 850CSi]|[BMW E39 535i]|[BMW HVAC Research]|[IBUS Scrolling Text]|[BMPuter]|[Velocity]|[TomTom]|[Vision]|[Space Navigator Driver]|[Super Fast Boot]

  • #2
    Originally posted by sama View Post
    I think that for every user that has a newbie status, there should be an intermediate screen that tells them to search first since most subjects are covered. if they choose not to, they can be flamed.
    I think thats bang out of order....

    I bet you were a newbie once over and asked other people for help or direction to another thread, and if a quick solution is required IMHO the best thing to do is ask...

    Originally posted by chinese proverb
    He who asks the question looks stupid for 5minutes, he who doesnt looks stupid for a life time!
    And if asking means the difference between a decent dash or a mashed up hole a wonkey lilli n a Scomp P60 with 16mb of RAM stuck in a car boot then to me the question is better.

    Id rather be directed straight to an answer rather than be told to bog off and spend over a two hours trawling through topics that after reading 20 pages have no bloody relevance to what you want to know, it gets a tad frustrating!

    Thats just what i think, yes it gets annoying seeing threads that have the same wuestion like *what do i need to get started because someone is tooooo F00k!ng lazy to look the Newbie /FAQ section but for more complex questions from newbies that may have been in the game aaages and just want a simple answer it think this is wrong.

    This are just my opinions, please feel free to add coments, n CONSTRUCTIVE critisism please...

    Cheers

    M

    Comment


    • #3
      I agree that a question should never go unasked. and the issue I'm trying to address here is a simple one. just to force newbies to search, esepcially for the first few posts they do.

      I just answered a question about power noise on the lcd screen. this has been discussed 10's of times over 10's of threads. a simple search like "lcd noise" in the power supplies section would have shown the way.

      I don't like it when newbies get flames, and I don't like it when someone asks a question and doesnt' get answered. I see moderators on here flaming the crap out of newbies, and I see that's wrong. in the same way, that I see someone asking, in their very first post, a question that has been answered.

      therefore my approach to solving it is not to quickly humiliate a newbie, but to make sure they're aware of searching and why it's importatnt to search. if they don't know this, they are forgiven. but if they do, then they're asking for it.

      so the solution is therefore to educate anyone that doesn't know how to search, rather than flame them straight away.
      Current:
      [BMW E46 ///M3 Convertible]

      Previous:
      [BMW E31 850CSi]|[BMW E39 535i]|[BMW HVAC Research]|[IBUS Scrolling Text]|[BMPuter]|[Velocity]|[TomTom]|[Vision]|[Space Navigator Driver]|[Super Fast Boot]

      Comment


      • #4
        Funny, this has been posted time and time again, did you by chance search for the answer

        Ya, I don't know if this is something the owners of the board don't think is a problem, don't care about, or are unable to do, but it seems as if over all this time, nothing in fact has been done.

        There are likely hundreds of different possible solutions. Thread moderation where a thread must be approved before being posted, or perhaps restrcting a newbie posting to the Noob section until they have been "approved" to post, or perhaps a pop up that says, Welcome to MP3car.com, here are the rules, now you can post, to the current option, just allowing it, and letting the mods deal with it in some way. I can't say either one is the best, but these are some of the options.

        nevawlkalone: the issue is a catch22. The reason there is hundreds of threads, about the same thing, is because the question gets asked over and over. The reason why there is no answer in many of those threads, is because the noob is told to search. If the noob would have searched first, instead of posting, there would be considerably less clutter and useless threads with the search terms. However, many, or most, of the people with the answers hate to continually post the same thing over and over and over and over again. Why should they, since it has been recorded in the form of other threads for someone to access for all eternity (or when ever this ends). I hate repeating myself over and over and over again. Sure, I am willing to help but, when I have to say it 10 times a day, when the person can EASILY read it in the "manual" (that would be the forums) why should I have to.

        The noobs complain that there is useless crap on the board to read through, but they fail to realize they cause the useless posts, and while "we" could help alleviate the problem by posting the answer everytime, no one wants to post the same thing over and over.

        I think the answer is not to post the answer. That will just clutter the boards with the same stuff over and over. Imagine reading the manual for your car, and reading, "Add 87 octane to your car" 100 times. It is wastefull. The truth of what a forum is that it is a repository of information, with some knowledgable people available to help with the tough stuff. These "experts" are not here for everyday use, consider them "tier 2" tech support, when you have a problem, and have consulted the manual for the answer, or have followed the manual, but to no avail. Also remember that the "experts" are not rewarded in anyway except with the knowledge of helping someone, and perhaps, the challenge the question proposed. If someone is willing to help you with a question, it is thier decision wether they want to help you. Some people think that the forum is required to provide the answer, like the poster is entitled to an answer. They are not entitled. This gets lost on most posters.

        While I agree that perhaps the "experts" are mean when they reply to the same old question, the poster MUST realize that they have not done what they are supposed to do. Remember, this is not a question and answer session, or tech support, this is a repository of information. Use it, and you will find the answer. If there is no answer (which is highly unlikely) then ask away. Realize, the answer might not be as difficult as you think, and you may be told that in no uncertain terms.

        Wow, what a rant.

        Michael
        ...I love the French language...especially to curse with...Nom de Dieu de putain de bordel de merde de saloperies de connards d'enculés de ta mère. You see, it's like wiping your *** with silk, I love it.

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi Guys.

          Noob here. Not really - Ive ran several forums ...... they are all the same really ... just the content changes.

          To that end I could say alot of things but then it would sound like a rant.

          So since none of you really know me Ill go about this a different way .....

          When you all get finished ascending then mabie you can break the rules of ascended beings and can answer some of those noob questions....

          I realize its none of your intentions to appear this way ... its okay ... we know you can't help it ... you ascended after all.

          Now on a more serious note I will point out that one of the real problems with this issue is that this site sells stuff. In the eyes of many noobs this site has a "support" forum.... and as long as this site sells stuff .. thats the way its going to be precieved by many people.

          Now I wont taunt you ascended guys without at least giving a suggestion:
          That suggestion would be IF you want to "train" the masses to ascend then perhaps your answer should be something like this:

          Code:
          Hi,
          I searched for your question by using these terms:
          
          Search term: I ASKED SOMETHING ALONG THESE LINES
          
          and I found a thread that may include the answer:
          
          Answer:  Link to thread that discusses the answer.
          This does 3 things.

          1. Introduces the idea of searching for an answer without bashing someone
          2. Shows how to search by example for those who are intimidated by the concept
          3. Gives the answer for those whos brains are too tired from being taught how to search (as well as demonstrates the rewards of searching)

          Only after a long period of this consistant activity are you going to train us noobs to ascend ..... We are very young you must remember and the very young often do not do as they are told ......

          <THANKS TO STARGATE FOR THE ANOLOGY>

          Comment


          • #6
            I'm not going to sit here and point fingers at noob bashers (Wiredwrx), nor will I, in my defence, give an example of threads where I have defended noobs.

            I like the constructive approach, and it's always better. And in all honesty, this is what I was trying to acheive in the first place, to reduce the amount of flaming that goes on. Perhaps saying that noobs can be flamed at the end is not a great apprach, but the point is to educate at the outset.

            I have a pocketpc, and everytime I reset it, it forces me to go through a very small tutorial to cut and paste, by pressing and holding the stylus to get the context menu. I'd love to see something like this, since as you say all forums have this ascended being phenomena!

            I will use your approach from now on, since it the most practical and constructive. A change in the registration process would be nice.
            Current:
            [BMW E46 ///M3 Convertible]

            Previous:
            [BMW E31 850CSi]|[BMW E39 535i]|[BMW HVAC Research]|[IBUS Scrolling Text]|[BMPuter]|[Velocity]|[TomTom]|[Vision]|[Space Navigator Driver]|[Super Fast Boot]

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by sama View Post
              I'm not going to sit here and point fingers at noob bashers (Wiredwrx), nor will I, in my defence, give an example of threads where I have defended noobs.


              Some noobs have been in the forum for months and years even doing real research and doing hundreds of searches only to register when they feel that they have something constructive to contribute. Lets not stereo type all of us noobs into one group. Yeah there are those who register and hit the "new thread" button even before they know what an inverter or a TS overlay is, but wouldn't it be better overall if we got these people started on the right foot rather than getting a post later on asking for an easy way to pull a monitor out of a melted dash due to incorrect wiring?

              Just my two cents, sorry if i offended anyone.
              Rep! Rep! My kingdom for some rep!

              My WIP

              Ghetto Carlaputer: (putting things together) 0% * * * * * * * */2 - - 100%
              Wife's patience: 0% * * * */2 - - - - - 100%

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by sama View Post
                I like the constructive approach, and it's always better. And in all honesty, this is what I was trying to acheive in the first place, to reduce the amount of flaming that goes on. Perhaps saying that noobs can be flamed at the end is not a great apprach, but the point is to educate at the outset.
                I feel obliged to chime in on this thread, because I've bashed n00bs as well.

                I agree that the focus should be in informing n00bs (I think educating them is going a bit far, but it may just be semantics) should be everyone's focus, or at least the focus of us "old timers" who have some experience, knowledge, ideas, and wisdom to pass along to the neophytes that want to get into this hobby.

                So let's take this to the next level?
                What do you do with a newbie like Maheriano (if you're reading this thread, I'm sorry to have singled you out, but you're a prime example of this) who, despite being shown all the informational resources you need to figure out your problem, yet refuses to heed your advice, suggestions, etc? In this particular case, the guy was told repeatedly by multiple forum members that his wiring was shoddy, but he refused to believe it. Ultimately he broke down and did some troubleshooting and the problem was... shoddy wiring.

                I have clients like this and in infuriates me to no end. I train my users on a rather pricey retail operations software, and the software is waaaaaaay over a lot of my clients' heads. My clients also believe they know more than they really do, but then again... Don't we all?
                So I give them instructions to etiher fix a problem or perform an operation in the softweare. I give them explicit instructions, yet they ignore my instructions, or choose to perform a different operation, regardless of the fact that they're paying $90/hr (that translates into $1.50/min, low for the phone sex trade, I'm told!) to ignore the expert on the other end of the phone.

                From a technical standpoint, It's frustrating as all hell. From a fiscal standpoint, I let them do their thing. After all, I'm generating billable income for the company while they do what they think they need to do with me on the phone.

                Back to the issue at hand... What to do about the n00b who doesn't listen to the combined advice of several thousand forum members, some with knowledge, experience and education in this area?

                Sadly, I dion't have an answer to that question. I'm actually looking for advice or suggestions on how to deal with this situation.

                Oh, and welcome back WiredWRX.
                You were missed
                Have you looked in the FAQ yet?
                How about the Wiki?



                Under normal circumstances, a signature would go here.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Ok for the really stupid people, how about a three strike rule? You post something that has been covered or has been settled etc... unless it has a new "twist" or you're presenting something new to it, make such a post three times you get a short ban.
                  Rep! Rep! My kingdom for some rep!

                  My WIP

                  Ghetto Carlaputer: (putting things together) 0% * * * * * * * */2 - - 100%
                  Wife's patience: 0% * * * */2 - - - - - 100%

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    How about a popup dialog that reinforces Searching if a newbie with less than X posts hits the "New Thread" button.

                    DP, you know what I'm talking about if you recall the "Chuck Norris" link I posted a while back..
                    Dr. Ron Paul for President 2008

                    Hope for America - http://www.ronpaul2008.com

                    Who is Ron Paul? - Why do we need Ron Paul?

                    __________________
                    CarPC Newbs Start Here: All your questions answered, as if by E.S.P.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      ban is a bit extreme! especially for people who do not fully understand english. I know a guy that communicated on here purely by using a translator! quite amazing really.

                      I think what tj is saying would be great, the answer defintely lies in changing the existing posting process a little.
                      Current:
                      [BMW E46 ///M3 Convertible]

                      Previous:
                      [BMW E31 850CSi]|[BMW E39 535i]|[BMW HVAC Research]|[IBUS Scrolling Text]|[BMPuter]|[Velocity]|[TomTom]|[Vision]|[Space Navigator Driver]|[Super Fast Boot]

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I've always thought that if you have nothing constructive to say in answer to a noob question, don't say anything at all

                        Life's too short...
                        A calm approach in a troubled world...
                        http://www.inside-guide.co.uk/CarPC

                        CONSOLE_RR Project in progress...
                        DC UK Forum

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Guys my suggestion wasent totally blind. My last website had this problem.... it was burning my moderators out completely and it was even making me want to ban some of them. I couldent believe I was considering banning some of my moderators! That's absurd! In any good forum the mods are the backbone of it. They were just burning out.

                          Im telling you after about a month of consistant replies such as my example you will get noobs asking questions like this:

                          Code:
                          Okay I searched for THIS and THIS and I found THIS
                          and I did THIS but I still get THIS problem.
                          
                          HELP!
                          Thats what you want isent it?

                          Trust this Noob .... if EVERYONE in authority here follows that format you will make it savvy to search first!

                          But to work its going to have to get in place. When a noob comes and sees many questions that have been asked .. answered in this format ... hes going to comply .....

                          @DarquePervert
                          As for the sheer idiots who dont listen to a thousand people there is nothing you can do except pay them less emotional attention... flat out ignore them .. until they get ****ed and ask why nobody is answering and then tell them the truth "We do answer but you dont listen". Of course I dunno if you can get away with that for paying clients. At $90 an hour you may just have to learn to enjoy repeating yourself!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Draxx View Post
                            SNIP


                            Hi,
                            I searched for your question by using these terms:

                            Search term: I ASKED SOMETHING ALONG THESE LINES

                            and I found a thread that may include the answer:

                            Answer: Link to thread that discusses the answer.

                            [/code]
                            This does 3 things.

                            1. Introduces the idea of searching for an answer without bashing someone
                            2. Shows how to search by example for those who are intimidated by the concept
                            3. Gives the answer for those whos brains are too tired from being taught how to search (as well as demonstrates the rewards of searching)

                            Only after a long period of this consistant activity are you going to train us noobs to ascend ..... We are very young you must remember and the very young often do not do as they are told ......

                            <THANKS TO STARGATE FOR THE ANOLOGY>

                            Good idea... been done, no results. But thanks for the attempt.
                            TruckinMP3
                            D201GLY2, DC-DC power, 3.5 inch SATA

                            Yes, you should search... and Yes, It has been covered before!

                            Read the FAQ!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              My only issue with the newbie thing is that, well I am a noobie. I am not totally ignorant to the search feature. Sometimes I will search for something and find a post that is from like 2003.. Is that answer still valid? Do I want to work out my whole carpc install only to find that the 2003 answer was outdated 2 days after it posted and there is now a new updated solution to that problem. My thing is I agree with the people that said "if you have nothing constructive to say other than, SEARCH NOOB" then plz just dont reply.

                              If you know there is a current thread that has the answer and you want to say "Hey that is all explained here. <link>" That is helpful and appreciated.

                              Be kind to the noobs to his hobbie, you were all there at one point.

                              Monty

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