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  • Better Displays

    MP3car,

    In my search for a display for my CarPC project I have noticed a number of things. First of all there are few dedicated mobile display manufacturers: Lilliput or Xenarc. While these manufacturers (sold here) have done much to make small displays available to our ravenous hobby, they have done little to update the quality and selection of the products they offer. For example the best screen (high brightness, sunlight readable, transflective) is still only offered at 7". No 8,10, or 12 when consumers are constantly demanding such.

    So like many others I have looked elsewhere. Njytouch offers a nice solution w/ their LCD controller cards. But finding a seperate LCD, while doable, is not ideal. Ideal would be a premade display w/ vga or dvi inputs, high brightness, touchscreen, and sunlight readable or transflective in multiple sizes.

    Like these!

    These displays from a company in Switzerland would be perfect. After talking to the US distributor though, the problem is not enough financial muscle to get them available at a reasonable price point say of around $3-$600 dollars.

    I think MP3Car should do more to influence manufacturers to make better displays at lower prices or do more to increase members display choices. If I could find better choices than Lilliput/Xenarc surely MP3Car can as well.

    So what can we do to get the Digital Logic displays sold in the store? I am down for a group-buy.

    Mal
    Vehicle: [100%] 1995 C 1500 ECLB
    Gear: [90%]
    Build: [80%] PC & Chassis, Worklog

  • #2
    If consumers are demanding bigger/better/brighter displays as you claimed, why is your US distributor having trouble selling them?

    I do understand your point I am going through the same route. At this point I am building my own LCD screen using parts bought on eBay.

    There is one more option you can explore. Some board members here (tft_lcd I think) sell open frame kits that you may like.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by vat2010 View Post
      If consumers are demanding bigger/better/brighter displays as you claimed, why is your US distributor having trouble selling them?
      The US distributor is not having trouble selling them to police and emergency vehicle companies and trucking companies w/ digital systems in their cabs. But the CarPC consumer is a small segment they are either not aware of (as it seemed when I spoke to him) or unconcerned about because they make enough through the other industries I mentioned. He was more than happy to sell me a few hundred if I wanted them. That is where I think MP3Car should step in.

      Originally posted by vat2010 View Post
      There is one more option you can explore. Some board members here (tft_lcd I think) sell open frame kits that you may like.
      Looked at those and the NJYtouch controller board would work w/ those but the brightness was low on most of them.


      Mal
      Vehicle: [100%] 1995 C 1500 ECLB
      Gear: [90%]
      Build: [80%] PC & Chassis, Worklog

      Comment


      • #4
        No response from admin? No "Good idea we're looking into it." or "You don't know what you're talking about. We've been doin this long before you were even thought of."

        I miss Heather.

        Mal
        Vehicle: [100%] 1995 C 1500 ECLB
        Gear: [90%]
        Build: [80%] PC & Chassis, Worklog

        Comment


        • #5
          Dude it was a weekend. I'm sure Stephen, the store manager, will chime in soon.
          mp3Car.com Senior Tech Blogger (Want a product reviewed? Contact me.)
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          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Sonicxtacy02 View Post
            Dude it was a weekend. I'm sure Stephen, the store manager, will chime in soon.
            Sorry, did not know they closed the store on the weekend.

            Mal
            Vehicle: [100%] 1995 C 1500 ECLB
            Gear: [90%]
            Build: [80%] PC & Chassis, Worklog

            Comment


            • #7
              Although I have an interest in a bigger better display, I wouldn't go on a group buy without seeing a video, or a comparison of some sort with known displays...The specs do not look that great, and they're not even transflective? just my 02c
              Worklogs: 08 Sequoia Platinum Carputer (In Progress!)
              Skin: MetroSex on the Beach preview

              07 Infiniti Fx35 (done!) & 06 Infiniti M35 (gone...)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by RipplingHurst View Post
                ...The specs do not look that great, and they're not even transflective? just my 02c
                Good point about the group buy. But I'm a little confused about the specs, so school me if you will. Other than the monitors not being transflective what's not great about the specs?

                Digital Logic:

                Display 8.4" LCD TFT monitor (2x CCFL)
                Resolution 800 x 600, SVGA
                Brightness [HL]650 cd/m2 adjustable [/HL](Poti, Sensor)
                Contrast [HL]600 : 1[/HL]
                Touchscreen Analog resistive
                Video input VGA-CRT, [HL]DVI[/HL]
                Touch output USB, option: USB hub + sound
                Power supply [HL]8-33VDC[/HL], protected, 11W
                Cabling 3 separate single cables (Video, DC, USB)
                Dimensions, weight: 218 x 182 x 39mm, 1kg
                Colour Black, aluminium casing
                Attachment/installation VESA standard 75 x 75mm , M4
                Operating temperature -10C to +70C, IP30, e1

                The most expensive Xenarc 8" in MP3Car Store:

                Model #: 800TSV
                Screen Size: Diagonal 8" (4:3)
                Physical Resolution: 800 (H) x 600 (V) SVGA
                Supported Resolution: 640 x 480 ~ 1024 x 768
                Dot Resolution: 2400 x 600 = 1,440,000 (dots)
                LCD Brightness: [HL]350 cd/m[/HL]
                Contrast Ratio: [HL]400:1[/HL]
                Touch Screen Interface: USB port
                Operating Voltage Range: DC [HL]9V ~ 30V[/HL], 1A
                Power Supply: DC 12V
                Power Consumption: <14W
                Operating Temperature: 14F ~ 158F
                Storage Temperature: -4F ~ 158F
                Dimension (in): 8.98W x 6.46H x 1.42D
                Weight (lb): 2.64
                FCC, CE, E13 Certification
                18 Month Warranty


                The 10 & 12" monitors are LED backlit. I'm not affiliated in any way with Digital Logic, I just like as many options as I can find? For instance the transflectives you mentioned in another thread Ripp are very appealing to me as well.

                Mal
                Vehicle: [100%] 1995 C 1500 ECLB
                Gear: [90%]
                Build: [80%] PC & Chassis, Worklog

                Comment


                • #9
                  I'm not saying they are bad by any means, I'm just saying their specs are not good enough to buy one without seeing it.

                  I also agree they seem to be much better than Xenarcs. As for the brightness and constrast numbers, I have a Xenarc 700TSV with 500nits, and it's useless. My 200nit (according to LG specs publish somewhere else in this forum) battery powered iPad has 200nits on its IPS screen and it's like 10x better.

                  If you get them to release their LCD manufacturer panel, we could learn a lot from that. It may be a high end Nec or Hydis, or a cheap Sharp instead...so knowing such things would help.
                  Maybe Xenarc over inflated their numbers, maybe they measured before they added the resistive touch (note that on their website the same numbers are claimed for the touch and non-touch model...). The viewing angles on my Xenarc are nowhere near what is claimed, etc.
                  Worklogs: 08 Sequoia Platinum Carputer (In Progress!)
                  Skin: MetroSex on the Beach preview

                  07 Infiniti Fx35 (done!) & 06 Infiniti M35 (gone...)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi Mal,

                    Thanks for pointing this European vendor out. Their displays do look intriguing and I'll look into them a bit more.

                    We have an established relationship already with Inelmatic in Europe and they have similar products to the XF700 in the 8" and 10" range. Brightness is in the 800-1000 nits range for these sizes, but price jumps significantly to $900+ when going to these larger monitors.

                    In our experience, it's not the individual hobbyists that are interested in these units, but larger companies looking to use them for industrial and special purpose applications. As mp3Car seeks to dab into both markets, introducing these here in the U.S. is definitely a possibility. However, as you can imagine, the amount of capital needed to hold this inventory is substantial. We usually wait for a corporate or government customer to express interest first before bringing products like this on our store and offering them to the individual hobbyist. As I think you found out, it's difficult to convince distributors to sell in quantities below 100s of units at prices that can easily be translated into reasonable MSRPs for end users. Sometimes "muscle" is needed in the form of a large corporate order first to facilitate that initial shipment.

                    Another thing to consider in the automotive market is not just brightness, but how well the monitor is able to 'redirect' sunlight away from your eyes. That is, you can have the brightest monitor in the world and it still won't outshine the sun. Therefore, for customers seeking a monitor that appears brighter in all sunlight conditions, we recommend the Inelmatic XF700 or mp3Car Sunlight Readable Lilliput 669 in the 7" range. You do bring up a good point, however, that offerings are somewhat limited in the 8-10" range.

                    Lilliput just recently introduced their high brightness 7" models with HDMI & DVI. I will also try to work with them to get the 8" and 10.4" models to market quickly.

                    Again, thanks for the heads up on this vendor. Keep the product suggestions coming! ;-).

                    Stephen
                    Have a product you would like to sell on the mp3Car Store? PM me for more information.

                    Have a car computer question? Ask me by emailing the store.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Jensen2000 View Post
                      Hi Mal,

                      Thanks for pointing this European vendor out. Their displays do look intriguing and I'll look into them a bit more.

                      We have an established relationship already with Inelmatic in Europe and they have similar products to the XF700 in the 8" and 10" range. Brightness is in the 800-1000 nits range for these sizes, but price jumps significantly to $900+ when going to these larger monitors.

                      In our experience, it's not the individual hobbyists that are interested in these units, but larger companies looking to use them for industrial and special purpose applications. As mp3Car seeks to dab into both markets, introducing these here in the U.S. is definitely a possibility. However, as you can imagine, the amount of capital needed to hold this inventory is substantial. We usually wait for a corporate or government customer to express interest first before bringing products like this on our store and offering them to the individual hobbyist. As I think you found out, it's difficult to convince distributors to sell in quantities below 100s of units at prices that can easily be translated into reasonable MSRPs for end users. Sometimes "muscle" is needed in the form of a large corporate order first to facilitate that initial shipment.

                      Another thing to consider in the automotive market is not just brightness, but how well the monitor is able to 'redirect' sunlight away from your eyes. That is, you can have the brightest monitor in the world and it still won't outshine the sun. Therefore, for customers seeking a monitor that appears brighter in all sunlight conditions, we recommend the Inelmatic XF700 or mp3Car Sunlight Readable Lilliput 669 in the 7" range. You do bring up a good point, however, that offerings are somewhat limited in the 8-10" range.

                      Lilliput just recently introduced their high brightness 7" models with HDMI & DVI. I will also try to work with them to get the 8" and 10.4" models to market quickly.

                      Again, thanks for the heads up on this vendor. Keep the product suggestions coming! ;-).

                      Stephen
                      Stephen,

                      Thanks for the reply. I was hoping the reason you guys only offered Lilliput or Xenarc monitors was better than "we have relationship w/ them", and you showed me that it was. I understand supply and demand. I guess w/ the size of this forum I am easily fooled to think the demand is larger than it truly is. Working two consumer markets makes alot of sense for MP3Car.

                      Since I am in the market for a display for my project, I am finding I do not mind paying $600 - $700 if the product is worth it. Manufacturers should know not to try to sell consumers "flat screens" w/ "crt" technology at "flat screen" prices.

                      Originally posted by Jensen2000 View Post
                      Lilliput just recently introduced their high brightness 7" models with HDMI & DVI. I will also try to work with them to get the 8" and 10.4" models to market quickly.
                      How much "persuasion" do you think it will take? I live in Vegas, I know some people.

                      Mal
                      Vehicle: [100%] 1995 C 1500 ECLB
                      Gear: [90%]
                      Build: [80%] PC & Chassis, Worklog

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hi again Mal,

                        We could use some 'persuasion' with respect to some other aspects of our business (i.e. fighting fraud, non-paying customers etc.)... Can you help with this?

                        Stephen
                        Have a product you would like to sell on the mp3Car Store? PM me for more information.

                        Have a car computer question? Ask me by emailing the store.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Jensen2000 View Post
                          Hi again Mal,

                          We could use some 'persuasion' with respect to some other aspects of our business (i.e. fighting fraud, non-paying customers etc.)... Can you help with this?

                          Stephen
                          I'll see what I can do.

                          On a more serious note, I found another display manufacturer right in our own back yard.
                          Q-Vio in San Diego. Might be easier to deal with them than a company in Switzerland. Display otions .

                          Mal
                          Vehicle: [100%] 1995 C 1500 ECLB
                          Gear: [90%]
                          Build: [80%] PC & Chassis, Worklog

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Looking into this vendor today. Looks interesting. Thanks.

                            Stephen
                            Have a product you would like to sell on the mp3Car Store? PM me for more information.

                            Have a car computer question? Ask me by emailing the store.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              PN: QD090WXIAA-00 – In development, demo available soon
                              -----9” WXGA (1280 x 800)
                              -----1000 NIT Brightness (estimated)
                              -----1000: 1 contrast
                              -----8 bit color
                              -----8W power (estimated)
                              -----85-85-85-85 deg. viewing cone
                              ----- -0 to +50C operating temp (preliminary)
                              • Display Kits available with LED driver-dimmer board,
                              input cable, video card and touch screens


                              sunlight readable. this does look interesting.... if we could get one of these for $500 or less....

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