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clear playback at full volume?

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  • clear playback at full volume?

    Hi guys,

    looking to upgrade my car headunit/speakers so I have good quality sound. I think it's just four speakers and two tweeters I want to replace with something better quality. Don't need an amp as full volume loudness is enough for me but was just wondering if it's possible to get a head unit that will be able to play clearly at full volume?

    All advice about having an audio system that can play clearly at full volume will be appreciated.

    Thanks in advance!

  • #2
    i had to think about this one for a little while:

    it is not that simple. there is not any speakers that will correct this.

    if you want to go loud, there is no way to do it cheap...

    every amp and stereo that i can think of will produce distortion at max volume. there is no way around this, you are pushing the amp way to hard for full range sound, and so it distorts...

    the only way to go louder is to get components that are designed to go louder then what you have..

    if you are only using the factory deck, a aftermarket deck will very likely have the loudness you desire-- but at 3/4 volume.

    if you already have a aftermarket deck, you need a amp with more power.

    if you are using factory speakers, you will need to get better aftermarket speakers. if you really want to go loud, you will need to go with component speakers with a passive crossovers..

    and if you want to go really really loud, that calls for active crossovers, and car power-system upgrades...

    you will also need to setup high pass crossovers for the mids and tweeters, and you will also need to add a sub with a low pass crossover...

    like i said, loud isn't cheap...

    my own setup involves a car computer crossing over the audio, and sending each speakers signal to a separate amp channel-- my setup is loud enough i have no desire to turn it up above 1/2... but has cost me over $3k so far...
    My OLD 2001 Mitsubishi Eclipse GT:
    "The Project That Never Ended, until it did"

    next project? subaru brz
    carpc undecided


    • #3
      Having it so loud that I don't want turn it up more than 1/2 way would be a solution but I can't afford it atm. I don't really need that much loudness but I have a habit of turning the volume up every time a new song starts until it starts clipping... I use to have a Pioneer HU years ago and it happily played any CD at full volume. So I was wondering if I could find something like that again.


      • #4
        look for a mosfet based amplifier in your head unit... lots of power, low battery drain. it will play wayyy louder than your stock setup.

        if you have a place low and forward in the doors to mount a set of 6.5 coaxials and brace the door well, you will be happy with the sound. listen to the combination at the store, then take them home and install well, taking time to rotate the speakers before you mount them, something akin to tuning an instrument...


        • #5
          rotating the speakers?
          My OLD 2001 Mitsubishi Eclipse GT:
          "The Project That Never Ended, until it did"

          next project? subaru brz
          carpc undecided


          • #6
            after you determine where you are going to mount the speakers, cut out the holes, then have a friend hold one and you hold the other and rotate them slightly until you are able to make a good stereo image in front of you... because the speaker's higher frequencies mainly come from the spot on the speaker which is across from the speaker terminals... your aim is to make the speakers "disappear" into the image. you will want to test with a bunch of different music... live cds help alot so you can get a sense of "space" as well. but also note that if you rotate too far, you will encounter dips and peaks in the bass frequencies. normally, if the speaker is mounted flat into the door, it will only take a smidgen of rotation and you will see what im talking about... its like tuning an instrument... small changes make a big difference. note: also do this when you mount subs into a box... ;run a full range to them, and move them a smidgen until the sound is most clear... experiment and you will see a big difference.


            • #7
              hmm, i find it odd that this is the first time i have ever heard of rotating speakers for the best sound, and after some searching, am still coming up with nothing other then your post...

              in one respect, i can kind of understand it as the tinsel leads might slow/weigh the cone down slightly..

              in the other respect, almost all speakers are pretty close to being balanced, so i would assume that engineers would take that into account a little.

              another thing that i think that might go against this is high end speakers-- if what your saying is dramatically true, wouldn't higher end speakers(i am talking +$200 each drivers) include both a standard frequency response graph(at the typical 0, 15, and 30 deg. off axis..), and a radial-response graph, like what is included with calibration mics?

              it just seems like one of those things that could theoretically make a huge difference in a audio system that i can't find any info anywhere else ...

              to add to this, because this is really going to bother me when i get some new speakers:
              for instance:
              this is one of morels "top of the line" speakers-- it goes for $320ea, and the data sheet doesn't display radial response differences?

              this is one of scanspeaks to drivers, same deal($307 ea):

              and one more--the accuton driver goes for $615-- wouldn't this of all drivers have either taken this into account, or display the chart for it?
              My OLD 2001 Mitsubishi Eclipse GT:
              "The Project That Never Ended, until it did"

              next project? subaru brz
              carpc undecided


              • #8
                Than again, it was also stated MOSFET amps have a lower battery drain...

                But placement - yes. And unlike domestics that can often be modeled and approximated, cars are far from that. Change the position of the tissue box or add seat covers and the acoustic change can be significant.
                Plus that in a room you can both sit in the speaker overlap zone - but you can't do that when you are closer to one speaker than you are to the other person. Else you are solo and have that extra path length from the nearside speaker/s.

                No simple answer. Hence multi-speaker setups creating their own zones.
                I though my headrest speakers solved problems in my small ute. They're great for the highs (unless you turn you head more than 60 degrees), but if the ute's nearside (the far-side from me) door speaker is blocked, I lack bass on that side. (No room for a sub unless I use an electrostatic or a resonator etc.)

                And then you have to re-EQ them anyhow for each sound source (if not track!).


                • #9
                  well play with it... you will see... every driver is like this, even tweeters. the highest frequencies of the speaker will originate from the spot across from the terminals, and this thin band of sound will "paint" the image into the air. as for going crazy about it in theory, i wouldnt worry too much, as every piston speaker is like that. something you may want to consider, however, especially in the car, is "beaming", which im sure you have heard about... larger drivers will lose their higher frequencies off axis... (which honestly has me considering the full range bamboo cone 3 inch drivers from tang band and, along with a free air(vent to exterior or door enclosure) midbass/sub in the floor or door) to me, a speaker firing from behind you might be timed to meet the front stage, but when it rumbles through you the instant before, it might maintain most of the soundstage, but it ruins the impact.

                  sometimes, especially in a car, less can be more.... its hard to beat a good point source driver, like a coaxial or full range driver or horns, where most of the sound comes from one small area. ... this has been my experience, anyways. yeah it wont be as loud as a bunch of drivers(save for the horns), but when even classical music sounds compelling, its hard to beat for the true audiophile who just loves his music!

                  car stereos are all the same: make the image the best you can and the speakers as invisible as possible with the image as big and high as possible, listening to tons of diffferent material, compromising from each seat because of interior lack of symmetry mainly, then button it up and eq it out, along with a little fine tuning from some extra thick gasket material, tightening each side of the driver to help it become invisible, if need be. then more eq... a little more tweaking here and there, then... starting to think about how you want to do it different next time... hahaha... its the endless cycle...

                  well thats how ive seen it, anyways... and no lie my Toyota RV front stage is just a set of ID 6.5 coaxials low and far forward in the doors, aimed so that they look like theyre staring at you when you are sitting in the seats(took about 40 hours of tweaking until i finally fiberglassed the mdf rings into position). it always sounds at least 2 feet bigger than the doors show you, it images over your head, even,,, and with it being aimed right at the listener, the midbass hits so hard its somewhat amazing. everything images the same, from midbass up through the whole range, making sounds which before were just sounds into magical things which float and sparkle through the air ... only thing is, i wound up with the speakers rotated a bit much and although it warmed the midrange and completed the stage, it made the midbass too strong, which had to be eq'd down.

                  the only time the image falls on this setup is on material like a few seconds from the Sargeant Peppers' Beatles album... when there is a single voice from only one speaker... the image ends up only a bit above the driver, itself(which is startling because otherwise the image is just so magical)... car audio is all about compromise... the passenger seat had to be set up a little behind the driver seat to make it good from both seats...

                  im planning on wedging a set of stereo, free air 10s in the floor to finish it up. everything from the front should be awesome. ill vent it to the outside, freeair... or go with a small sealed box. when i set up the 10s, ill go with a full range sound and make them mesh with the IDs. then when i fiberglass them into position, (temporarily holding the MDF rings with a few pieces of common steel pipe strapping which i can bend into position to suit before securing with fiberglass), the subbass will image along with the IDs. i might want to go with some delay from driver to driver, as well, but maybe not,. being as the crossover point will be somewhere around 80 hz, it might not be neccessary.

                  but, hey, this has only been my experience... definately go for the best image with small tweaks before EQing...