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  • How do I hook these items up properly

    I have a xm-504z http://goo.gl/3yvdV and two Kappa perfect 12dvq http://goo.gl/DdFu3 with dual voice coils. How do I hook these up properly with what I have? Reading about the ohms doesn't make sense to me as there are many ways to hook this up. Also, my box is a dual 12 inch but each chamber is separate if that changes anything.

    Thanks


    Amp
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    Speakers
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    Last edited by berizzo; 05-10-2012, 04:09 PM.

  • #2
    So you are only going to use it as a sub amp?
    Since it only has 250W sub output (as a 3-speaket system), only 1 Kapa is needed.

    Just ensure the sub(s) is(are) wired as 4-Ohms or above. There are many sites that explain how to do this.
    [In summary, series connections ADD resistances. Parallel connections reduce resistances - eg, two parallel 4 Ohms = 2 Ohms, 4x parallel 4 Ohms = 1 Ohm.]

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    • #3
      Originally posted by OldSpark View Post
      So you are only going to use it as a sub amp?
      Since it only has 250W sub output (as a 3-speaket system), only 1 Kapa is needed.

      Just ensure the sub(s) is(are) wired as 4-Ohms or above. There are many sites that explain how to do this.
      [In summary, series connections ADD resistances. Parallel connections reduce resistances - eg, two parallel 4 Ohms = 2 Ohms, 4x parallel 4 Ohms = 1 Ohm.]
      Alright. I'm pretty much a noob when it comes to car audio. So, I should use this amp for the car speakers? And what would be the best type of amp to get for the two twelves? A 1 ohm amp for more power?*

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      • #4
        I'm not one to advise - I'm happy enough with my HU which is loud enough to overpower my tinnitus.

        I'd search for your car or type of music and match to what you want, and your budget.

        The extent of my advice is to use RMS values (ie, what I call RMS power and others call Continuous Power) and not get too carried away by specs & bullsh etc, though I'll often advise on batteries, caps, distribution, dual-batteries etc for bigger systems.

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        • #5
          You actually need both Kapa's. Those are dual 4 ohm voice coil subs. So wire the two voice coils in series on the subs then put the two subs in parallel. That makes each sub an 8 ohm load and the two of them together a 4ohm load which is what your amp wants.

          Now, I suggest you get a different amp. That amp will severely under drive those subs.

          Are you planning on running your door speakers from an amp or the deck? If you have 4 speakers in your car that you want to power, use that amp for those and get a separate amp for your sub only. Something that has around 400 watts RMS at 2 ohms X2 or best yet, single channel 1 ohm stable with 400 watts. I'm not a huge fan of series wiring in speakers. Each voice coil colors the remaining sound.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by dmcdlrn View Post
            You actually need both Kapa's.
            only if he wants to run both and get a 4 ohm load.

            you don't need to run both voice coils if you really don't need to..
            My OLD 2001 Mitsubishi Eclipse GT:
            "The Project That Never Ended, until it did"


            next project? subaru brz
            carpc undecided

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            • #7
              I suppose. To me that's like buying a 4x4 and living in Las Vegas. Why drag the extra linkages around for nothing.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by dmcdlrn View Post
                I suppose. To me that's like buying a 4x4 and living in Las Vegas. Why drag the extra linkages around for nothing.
                Have you seen the area around Las Vegas
                Originally posted by Lincolnman
                Your English is fine, don't apologize. You're doing better than most Americans.

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                • #9
                  just like a four wheeler, it is for versatility in wiring.

                  you can also connect a pot to the unused coils and dampen the cone movement by varying the pot setting to change the 'tone' of the sub.
                  My OLD 2001 Mitsubishi Eclipse GT:
                  "The Project That Never Ended, until it did"


                  next project? subaru brz
                  carpc undecided

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by kolton5543 View Post
                    Have you seen the area around Las Vegas
                    You know what I meant

                    As for single coil on DVC sub. Yes you can do it. I have heard lots of arguments on this. I cant say I have ever seen a manufacturer recommend this config but I admit limited purchases of DVC subs in the past. The one thing to know is that your power handling will drastically be reduced. That alone makes it a bad idea. Buy a sub for your application, don't force a sub to fit the application. My opinion of course.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      how so? if anything, using a single vc increases your power handling due to the extra coil that power is not flowing through that allows more heat to get dissipated.
                      i don't think i would say that it would be doubled, maybe 1/4 to a 1/3 more power handling over what it was rated running dvc..



                      just remember-- "power handling" directly deals with how effectively the driver dissipates the heat it creates--cool the vc, and it's power capacity goes up..





                      (you know, i've been waiting for someone to debate on this issue )
                      Last edited by soundman98; 05-11-2012, 10:41 PM.
                      My OLD 2001 Mitsubishi Eclipse GT:
                      "The Project That Never Ended, until it did"


                      next project? subaru brz
                      carpc undecided

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Power handling is also limited by the wire itself used for the voice coil.

                        I'm not going to debate (sorry) as I'm no expert and this is not the thread to debate it in.(thread jack ). I know this has been discussed at the12volt.

                        In the end, I still suggest to the OP what I suggested. If he wants to get rid of his extra sub and buy a box to try a questionably sketchy setup... Be my guest, I wouldn't.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          well my thoughts are is that it would help increase power handling by that particular voice coil a little bit because it can use the second coil as a heatsink, but, I don't think the coil can handle as much power as both coils together. Say if it is a 400 watt DVC sub, if you connect both coils then each coil will be accepting 200 watts each as their limit. In theory if you connect one coil the other one would act as a heat sink and enhance its own power handling capabilities. I don't expect it to be 100% efficient so therefore it'll only be increased to say 300watts or so.

                          So yes, my opinion yes it will decrease the power handling you could get from DVC but not decrease it as much as by half.
                          Originally posted by Lincolnman
                          Your English is fine, don't apologize. You're doing better than most Americans.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            but when you connect the coils in series, all 400w of the power is required to flow through both coils.

                            back to my last point-- what limits any wire from taking a certain amount of power? how effectively it can get rid of any heat that power creates while running through the wire length. all subs have a pretty extensive cooling system built in, which is what allows them to have power in the hundreds of watts flowing through a small 22-24ga wire.


                            the other aspect of this is distortion. as many in car audio know, distortion kills speakers.

                            distortion, in 'simple' terms(distortion is not simple), is power that the speaker can't use. either because that power is being applied when the sub is extending past it's mechanical movement, or the power is being applied in way that the sub can't do anything with the electrical signal the distortion is implying it should do. so this power needs to go somewhere, and it does. it gets converted to heat.

                            how well the speaker gets rid of this heat is related to it's power handling. everything is related .

                            all of my speakers use amps whose RMS output values are at least double of the speakers RMS values. i have also never blown a speaker(at least in my car. i have blown speakers intentionally in my work shop). because i keep audible distortion away from the speakers-- either by turning it down, or adjusting the crossover points to avoid frequencies outside of the speakers limits at that volume..
                            My OLD 2001 Mitsubishi Eclipse GT:
                            "The Project That Never Ended, until it did"


                            next project? subaru brz
                            carpc undecided

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by soundman98 View Post
                              (you know, i've been waiting for someone to debate on this issue )
                              You fool! You must have thought I'd not revisit this thread...
                              Well, to quote Australian foreplay - brace yourself!
                              But not quite - I can only talk from the simple theoretical POV.


                              What limits the power?
                              - the power the speaker can handle (heat; wire fusing)
                              - the power the amp can supply. This is based on speaker impedance (resistance) - eg, a 200W "stable at (a minimum of) 2 Ohm" should put 100W into a 4 Ohm speaker, and blow up into a 1 Ohm speaker.

                              From here I'll use "R" for Ohms - ie, 1R means 1 Ohm. That's a common substitution and overcomes the html etc problem where the normal Ohm's "omega" symbol (Ω) is displayed as W. (Which is most confusing because a 1W resistor is as legitimate as a 1Ω resistor. In retrospect, some of those authors were not idiots after all!)


                              Power can be varied by changing speaker resistance - eg, series or parallel connection. EG, Four 2R 100W speakers in series-parallel as a 2R 400W load.

                              If speakers are the same, combinations are easy...
                              EG - 2R in series = 4R, 6R, 8R (for 4 in series) etc. (Addition of resistances.)
                              EG - 2R in parallel = 1R (2R/2), 4 in parallel = 2R/4 = 0.5R etc.


                              And yes, resistance increases with temperature.
                              Hence it makes more sense to split between 2 VCs provided the parallel connection does not exceed the amp's minimum output resistance. (Series connection at least halves the power.)
                              But the latter is IMO simply a case of max power into the lowest resistance. You wouldn't add 1 or 3 extra speakers (for the same resistance using the 2 paralleled "2 in series" method) for that slight power gain.


                              Then there is the efficiency.
                              Will 1W into a 100W speaker be louder than into a 1W or 10W speaker? IE - should the amp and speaker be reasonably matched because 1W isn't enough to move a 100W speaker?
                              That's one for the audio gurus, but I see how cone stiffness and maybe magnetic hysteresis etc do effect that.
                              Plus simply - why should a 1W signal have to "push" the extra copper and core (weight) required to handle 100W etc?



                              IMO the above cover the basics. From that comes the (later) clarity - eg, A VC may produce 100W of heat... each VC - across the same source - produces the same heat, hence a total of 200W if in parallel. (And only 50W total if in series.)


                              And yes, the12volt.com is IMHO often great site for this type of info.
                              However, having recently wasted effort because someone butted in with "RMS Power in audio is a misnomer" and seemed to infer that "Continuous Power" was somehow - or significantly - different... Let's just say I was not amused. I found myself in the same situation as many others - trying to find valid info on the web! Ha!! (Information increases exponentially. Since bad info is more common than good, the chances of hitting good info decreases with time. And boy oh boy have I noticed that decrease recently!!)



                              PS... Heat varies with the square of the current OR voltage.
                              EG = P = IIR = VV/R. So for a constant Resistance, power (heat) is proportional to I x I, or V x V.
                              So double the current means four times the power/heat.
                              Last edited by OldSpark; 05-13-2012, 08:16 PM. Reason: PS...

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