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best low wattage 4 channel amp?

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  • best low wattage 4 channel amp?

    i have a scion tc with factory speakers. i currently have a 200 watt x 2 channel amp but of course i cant adjust the fade from front to rear because one channel is my left front/rear and the second channel is my right front/rear. so i need a 4 channel amp. but all of the ones i see online are WAY too powerful like 600x4 and such.. my stock speakers can only take 23 watts rms i believe.. do they make multi channel amps that wouldnt be too powerful? i guess i wouldnt need more than 200x4

    i searched btw

    edit:

    maybe this one?

    i can't search for "4 channel amp" cause "4" is too short. but when i make this post, it pops up close matches at the bottom. thats one way to get around that i guess

  • #2
    I sell a pioneer 300x4 amp that is rated at 50x4 rms, but that still might be to powerful. I would upgrade your factory door speakers if you can.
    Trying is the first step toward failure

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    • #3
      Originally posted by canadapettit
      I sell a pioneer 300x4 amp that is rated at 50x4 rms, but that still might be to powerful. I would upgrade your factory door speakers if you can.
      eh i just blew 1500 on a carpc setup. i could use the extra money i'd have to spend on upgrading/installing the door speakers. they're not that bad though

      i just checked, according to the scion faq my factory speakers are 20w rms, 50 peak @ 4ohms

      http://home.cfl.rr.com/icdedppl/faq.html#e1

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      • #4
        You could by an inexpensive 4 x 50 amp and turn the gain down so you wont blow your stock speakers. That's what I did, I bought a cheap Sony explode amp at Walmart for $100 and hooked it up to my stock speakers. But I'm sure you can probably find some lower power amps if you search around.
        1997 Corvette

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        • #5
          Dont worry about overpowering the speakers. Just make sure you do not add distortion and you will be fine. for distortion and setting gains. Right now I am running 125w RMS to my stock honda speakers in the front doors. As long as I maintain low distortion, the speakers will play much louder than i ever intend to play them. Overpowering will not kill a speaker, underpowering and distortion will.

          There are HUNDREDS of 4 channel amps that will work. I just sold one for $50. Look in the classified section or ebay. See if you can't find a deal on a Phoenix Gold Saphire 4.0 or 5.0. Great little old school amp that is a hell of a deal usually.
          Take my advice: Do not try to build a system that includes EVERY feature. Start with the basics, build it to a bug free state, and THEN add on.

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          • #6
            ok that makes sense. i know that signal clipping will kill a speaker a well as underpowering from my dealing with guitar speaker cabinets. i forget there is a sensitivity adjustment knob on most amps that should keep me in the safe zone

            next undertaking is finding a single 12" speaker + amp to power it so i can get rid of my trunk-hogging two-10" bandpass box. i saw a link with an amp that does 4 channels + 1 for a subwoofer. maybe thats an option for me...

            thanks
            eddie

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            • #7
              I have JL Audio components $400 bucks at a set ( I didn't pay that ), powered by a Jl Slash Series 300/4.... Push 75rms per channel.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Will Albers
                Overpowering will not kill a speaker, underpowering and distortion will.
                Ok so I turn up the volume on my 250w rms home hifi with its full size speakers, go as far as I can without causing distortion, pause the cd, connect my 25w bookshelf speakers in place of my full size cabinets, press play and all will be fine.....

                I wont have overpowerd them.


                While we are on this train of thought, please explain, and be as technical as you can I wont mind, how 'underpowering' a speaker will kill it?
                Lez, more widely known as flez1966

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                • #9
                  Using an underpowered amplifier, and pushing it so hard that it reaches the point of clipping.. at which point dangerous, dirty, and very squary power is hitting the voice coils is more likely to cause a damaged speaker, than using an amplifier which is stronger than the speaker, with the gain turned down and properly adjusted to match the speaker, as you can be quite sure your speaker will never see a clipped signal... obviously if you push 10x the peak rating through a speaker, its going to cause problems... what he meant was a newbie is less likely to experience accidental speaker death using a proper amp.

                  I can attest to this myself, based on personnal experience... my first audio install, I blew an infinity 1230w (1200W Peak, 350wrms) using a 35w amp in about 2 minutes, because it was clipping so hard the voice coil burned out.

                  I'm now running the same type of subwoofer (another infinity 1230w) with a 300wrms JBL amp running full throttle, and it hasn't hiccuped yet.

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                  • #10
                    Also, megagoo, I highly suggest the infinity 7540a/7541a 4ch amp

                    Its a very nice amp, with very good SQ, and enough power to push pretty much anything you'll throw at it. You can find em brand new on ebay for ~200$ shipped. Like this one

                    Best of luck getting that front/rear fade going on.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Fusion-One
                      Using an underpowered amplifier, and pushing it so hard that it reaches the point of clipping.. at which point dangerous, dirty, and very squary power is hitting the voice coils is more likely to cause a damaged speaker, than using an amplifier which is stronger than the speaker, with the gain turned down and properly adjusted to match the speaker, as you can be quite sure your speaker will never see a clipped signal... obviously if you push 10x the peak rating through a speaker, its going to cause problems... what he meant was a newbie is less likely to experience accidental speaker death using a proper amp.

                      I agree with that, but thats not what was posted the first time round, and is still wrong now, its not an underpowered amp, its under driven amp.

                      Amps should never be over driven, as you say clipping kills speakers, speakers should never be over driven, once the voice coil reaches its limit of travel the impedence drops, causing hihger current flows, and the voice coil will either burnout or spit off a winding, resulting in crackly speakers that are useless.

                      Some amps detect this, I have never seen a car 12 amp that can.

                      Problem with using 10 watt speakers on a 500 watt amp and then running it underdriven to produce 5 watts of power is one day that amp will have a spike on its inputs and wham, smoking speakers.


                      speakers should always be rated higher than the amp, amps should be rated higher than the level you want to run at, but its not a perfect world, and we have to use what we have and what we can afford.
                      Lez, more widely known as flez1966

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                      • #12
                        The biggest single cause of loudspeaker driver failure is the high frequencies generated by an amplifier when it is driven into clipping. When the output signal of an amplifier is clipped (i.e. the output voltage, if unrestricted, would exceed the power supply voltage of the amplifier) the result is a signal that increasingly resembles a squarewave. A square wave, unlike a sinewave of a similar frequency, contains high frequency harmonics at a much higher level than would normally present in most audio signals. Hence the HF drivers in a loudspeaker, which are only designed to accept normal audio signals, have their coils burned-out by these high frequency harmonics generated by amplifier clipping. Therefore, whenever possible install an amplifier that matches or exceeds the power-handling of your loudspeaker

                        DC voltage... When a transistor, mosfet or bipolar amplifier (it doesn’t matter what type) processes a signal peak that is greater than its ability to completely amplify it, the level of the signal is ultimately limited to the internal DC power rails. In other words if the DC power rails on the amplifier are +/-35V then signal output voltage cannot exceed that (a bit less really).
                        When a sine wave signal (for clarity) reaches the limits of the power supply rails, the tops of the sine wavers are "flattened" because the voltage limit of the power supply rail has been reached. The signal still goes through to the speakers with the flattened tops. blah blah blah "clipping".

                        This presents a serious threat to the life of the speaker!

                        The flattened ‘bit’ at the top and bottom of the signal is in fact raw DC across the speaker voice coil, positive one instant, negative the next. The DC causes the voice coil to heat up rapidly, cooking the insulating enamel on the wire and burning away the adhesive holding the assembly in place. How long the voice coil will survive under these conditions depends on many factors; the repetition rate and time duration of the DC component of the signal is the most important, but voice coil construction magnet size and ambient temperature also have a bearing.

                        PA, HI FI and car speakers are all at risk. It does not matter whether it is an expensive European, American or lower cost Asian product, they are all vulnerable.

                        You can generally hear that an amplifier is clipping quite easily. The sound from the speaker becomes very harsh. The first thought is that the speaker is overloaded, after all, the sound is emanating from them. On the other hand, when a big amplifier is in use with a small speaker, genuine overload sounds far less harsh, and is not nearly as dangerous to the speaker. In 9 times out of 10, my experience has shown that what sounds like speaker overload is in fact amplifier clipping. Unlikely as it sounds, it is easier to destroy a 200W speaker with a 35W amplifier, than a 100W speaker with a 200W amplifier!

                        I could go on... Spending my early 20's as the manager of an electronic repair shop had its perks
                        Take my advice: Do not try to build a system that includes EVERY feature. Start with the basics, build it to a bug free state, and THEN add on.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Will Albers
                          Dont worry about overpowering the speakers. Just make sure you do not add distortion and you will be fine....Overpowering will not kill a speaker, underpowering and distortion will.

                          Agreed. Audible distortion tells you that either the amp is overpowering the speakers, or the amp itself is near it's limits. If you don't hear distortion, then you are most likely not overpowering anything....so the solution is simple: buy a good amp and don't worry about the MAX output because YOU control the amp's output through the volume control...just don't turn your music up so loud that you have audible distortion, and you will avoid damage!

                          Gregory

                          An amateur built the Ark. The Titanic was built by professionals.

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                          • #14
                            [QUOTE=Will Albers] A square wave, unlike a sinewave of a similar frequency, contains high frequency harmonics at a much higher level than would normally present in most audio signals. Hence the HF drivers in a loudspeaker, which are only designed to accept normal audio signals, have their coils burned-out by these high frequency harmonics generated by amplifier clipping. [\QUOTE= Will Albers]

                            Why? Why do high frequency harmonics burn out speaker coils? Is it because the higher frequencies are present for longer periods of time in a square wave than a sine wave? Please explain further...


                            [QUOTE=Will Albers]
                            When a sine wave signal (for clarity) reaches the limits of the power supply rails, the tops of the sine wavers are "flattened" because the voltage limit of the power supply rail has been reached. The signal still goes through to the speakers with the flattened tops. blah blah blah "clipping"
                            [\QUOTE=Will Albers]

                            No problem here....that makes sense...but...

                            [QUOTE=Will Albers]
                            The flattened ‘bit’ at the top and bottom of the signal is in fact raw DC across the speaker voice coil, positive one instant, negative the next.
                            [\QUOTE=Will Albers]

                            By the nature of direct current, it cannot be positive one instant, and negative the next...then it would be alternating current (unless you mean that the direct current alternates only with the audio signal and not at a preset frequency.

                            [QUOTE=Will Albers]
                            On the other hand, when a big amplifier is in use with a small speaker, genuine overload sounds far less harsh, and is not nearly as dangerous to the speaker.
                            [\QUOTE=Will Albers]

                            The above intuitively makes sense because the damage caused to the speaker is coil burnout, which must take current over time. The coil must experience transient DC loads over a sufficient proportion of time to heat and melt...most other physical damage to the speaker from over amplification would be related to over excursion...which is NOT time dependent, in contrast to current overload/voice coil burnout, and probably is limited to a large extent by the bump stops and speaker surround.

                            Just trying to clarify my own understanding...

                            Gregory

                            An amateur built the Ark. The Titanic was built by professionals.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Will Albers
                              it is easier to destroy a 200W speaker with a 35W amplifier, than a 100W speaker with a 200W amplifier!

                              I could go on... Spending my early 20's as the manager of an electronic repair shop had its perks
                              I spent my youth as an electronics engineer repairing optical card readers, mag stripe card access and big kiln/furnace controllers, then onto pc and embedded control systems, then spent 3 years as mobile DJ (60's to 80's music) and built all my own equipment including the amps light controllers and speaker cabinets.

                              With a quote like the above, I can see you as a manager.
                              Lez, more widely known as flez1966

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