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  • Speaker and Amplifier Matching

    Hey everbody... Havent been around in a bit... but ive been planning out a whole new system... Hopefully it will be planned completely by the end of the school year that way possibly (funds willing) I will be able to put it together this summer...

    My question is as follows... When it comes to Speaker and Amplifier matching how close do you want the ratings to be.

    I've been looking at alpine's line of PDX amplifiers. They have 1000W RMS mono amp at 150W per channel RMS 4 CH amp and a 150 W per channel RMS 2 CH amp.

    If I were to match a Alpine PDX 4.150 with a compontent speaker system with a nominal power rating of 75 RMS (per channel)... Is the amp way to much for the component system? Would I damage the speakers? I know that at times underpowering a system can lead to clipping and damage and obviously over powering can blow things. But if the amp's gain is set properly, granted the greatest potential of the amp will not be reached but would the speakers get damaged?

    Does anyone know about a 2 or 3 speaker component system that has a nominal power rating of 150w?

    Also as subs go... If i were to put two R-type 12" subs on a PDX 1.1000 (wired for 4 ohm at the amp) It would in theory send 500W to each sub. Considering the sub has a RMS of 200W - 500W... Could long playing eventually damage the subs? Also, If I put 2 X-type subs (500W-1000W RMS) would i just be wasting the sub?

    Does anyone know a good 12" sub that has an optimal RMS rating of 500W?
    Possibly the JL 12W6v2 (150W - 750W RMS)?
    Brown 2010

  • #2
    matching the alpine subs to that amp would be running them and the amp about as optimally as possible, they will love it. you dont really wanna set the gain to keep the volume lower so you dont blow the speakers, thats no good, gain is used to match signal voltage to expected voltage, if you set it lower then it loses information.
    I would imagine 1 typeX with 1000w running to it would sound better that 2 type R's....
    now if I could just figure out how to put a computer on the SV.....

    Comment


    • #3
      150 wrms to a 3 way set up will nto be overpowering most out there. and as long as the signal is clean then you should be fine.

      as far as subs are concerned. i've been talking with jl audio and one of the reps is powering a 12w7 with a 500/1 amp and he says it performs very well even though that is almost underpowered for that sub. I am going to be going this route with my zapco ref 500.1 amp. Another sub to look at is a Alumapro 12". One of the Reps at Zapco is pushing one of these with a 500.1 ref amp and he says it sounds great. If you are building a sealed enclosure, the sub will be able to handle higher wattages too. so that may have something to do with what sub you choose. I wouldn't really worry about overpowering any 'quality' sub. as long as it's installed properly and your gains are set right then you should be good to go. Some other companies to look into are image dynamics and elemental designs. I have an ID sub (well...now it's sitting in it's box on my floor) and i loved the thing. it's an awesome sub for the money. If you get the IDQ line (for sq) or the IDMAX line (for spl) they will be very happy with 500 wrms.

      Originally posted by Sidewalksalvage View Post
      Hey everbody... Havent been around in a bit... but ive been planning out a whole new system... Hopefully it will be planned completely by the end of the school year that way possibly (funds willing) I will be able to put it together this summer...

      My question is as follows... When it comes to Speaker and Amplifier matching how close do you want the ratings to be.

      I've been looking at alpine's line of PDX amplifiers. They have 1000W RMS mono amp at 150W per channel RMS 4 CH amp and a 150 W per channel RMS 2 CH amp.

      If I were to match a Alpine PDX 4.150 with a compontent speaker system with a nominal power rating of 75 RMS (per channel)... Is the amp way to much for the component system? Would I damage the speakers? I know that at times underpowering a system can lead to clipping and damage and obviously over powering can blow things. But if the amp's gain is set properly, granted the greatest potential of the amp will not be reached but would the speakers get damaged?

      Does anyone know about a 2 or 3 speaker component system that has a nominal power rating of 150w?

      Also as subs go... If i were to put two R-type 12" subs on a PDX 1.1000 (wired for 4 ohm at the amp) It would in theory send 500W to each sub. Considering the sub has a RMS of 200W - 500W... Could long playing eventually damage the subs? Also, If I put 2 X-type subs (500W-1000W RMS) would i just be wasting the sub?

      Does anyone know a good 12" sub that has an optimal RMS rating of 500W?
      Possibly the JL 12W6v2 (150W - 750W RMS)?
      New System in progress:
      M10k
      Phaze TD1500 ~> Dynaudio MD130
      Phaze TD1500 ~> Seas g18rnx/p
      Zapco Ref 500.1 ~ 12" tc-9
      Behringer DCX2496 ~ Envision Electronics psu
      Transflective Xenarc

      My Car Pc Install
      My Boat Pc worklog

      Comment


      • #4
        Hmmm....

        All looks good... I think i have more work cut out for me.
        Question:

        Why does a sealed box allow the sub to handle more wattage??

        I'm definatly going with a sealed box setup. Im looking to do a whole custom fiberglassed job for the box or boxes in my trunk...

        Originally posted by scott_fx View Post
        If you are building a sealed enclosure, the sub will be able to handle higher wattages too. so that may have something to do with what sub you choose.
        Brown 2010

        Comment


        • #5
          A few things i should mention. I was thinking of lowering gain not to adjust volume but to adjust the power output of the amplifier and such lower the wattage to the speakers. Now i may be VERY off here......... so please let me know if i am.

          Also I would like to use 2 subs/amp because my goal is to have 4 subs, two forward mounted and 2 reverse mounted so that i cancel out phase interference. Also i would like 4 as upposed to 2 to make for well more bass and for visual asthetics (even look in the across the trunk)

          Originally posted by Dichotomous View Post
          matching the alpine subs to that amp would be running them and the amp about as optimally as possible, they will love it. you dont really wanna set the gain to keep the volume lower so you dont blow the speakers, thats no good, gain is used to match signal voltage to expected voltage, if you set it lower then it loses information.
          I would imagine 1 typeX with 1000w running to it would sound better that 2 type R's....
          Brown 2010

          Comment


          • #6
            i'm not 100% sure on why sealed is better so i may screw up the explanation. but it's my understanding that the sealed enclosure allows the sub to control itself easier (since it has the pressure from the box to push it back to it's at rest state i presume?) i'm sure red or shadow will chime in to help me out though.

            If you're going with 4 subs for asthetics then that is cool but unless you are going for spl comp. i'm not 100% convinced that you are going to see much of a benefit. Personally I'd put the money towards more power and probably better speakers and stick with two. this will free up some space and should get you nausiating spl
            New System in progress:
            M10k
            Phaze TD1500 ~> Dynaudio MD130
            Phaze TD1500 ~> Seas g18rnx/p
            Zapco Ref 500.1 ~ 12" tc-9
            Behringer DCX2496 ~ Envision Electronics psu
            Transflective Xenarc

            My Car Pc Install
            My Boat Pc worklog

            Comment


            • #7
              nausiating spl!

              Im not looking to compete (well at least not yet)
              Im looking more for better sound quality.

              take these two examples....

              in one i have two subs one mounted normally and the second reverse mounted to eliminate phase disturbance

              and the second i have both mounted normally

              will i hear a big difference? Will it clean up the bass or in the long run not make much difference?

              Also what about if i split the signal
              with 4 subs, two get left channel bass and the second 2 get right channel bass

              will that improve imaging? I know bass is prettymuch omnidirectional and is much less important than tweeter positioning. But lets say im watching a movie could it improve sound?

              Originally posted by scott_fx View Post
              i'm not 100% sure on why sealed is better so i may screw up the explanation. but it's my understanding that the sealed enclosure allows the sub to control itself easier (since it has the pressure from the box to push it back to it's at rest state i presume?) i'm sure red or shadow will chime in to help me out though.

              If you're going with 4 subs for asthetics then that is cool but unless you are going for spl comp. i'm not 100% convinced that you are going to see much of a benefit. Personally I'd put the money towards more power and probably better speakers and stick with two. this will free up some space and should get you nausiating spl
              Brown 2010

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Sidewalksalvage View Post
                nausiating spl!

                Im not looking to compete (well at least not yet)
                Im looking more for better sound quality.

                take these two examples....

                in one i have two subs one mounted normally and the second reverse mounted to eliminate phase disturbance

                and the second i have both mounted normally

                will i hear a big difference? Will it clean up the bass or in the long run not make much difference?

                Also what about if i split the signal
                with 4 subs, two get left channel bass and the second 2 get right channel bass

                will that improve imaging? I know bass is prettymuch omnidirectional and is much less important than tweeter positioning. But lets say im watching a movie could it improve sound?
                first off...where is red and her knowledge about subwoofer enclosures!

                second. i'm not sure about the phase disturbance you talk about. i've never had a car that could really fit more then one sub in it... so i haven't researched it, but i wouldn't think it'd make much of a difference.

                as far as stereo bass... i dont think you'd be able to tell unless your subs were crossed over pretty high...but then there goes your soundstage, so i wouldn't even sweat it
                New System in progress:
                M10k
                Phaze TD1500 ~> Dynaudio MD130
                Phaze TD1500 ~> Seas g18rnx/p
                Zapco Ref 500.1 ~ 12" tc-9
                Behringer DCX2496 ~ Envision Electronics psu
                Transflective Xenarc

                My Car Pc Install
                My Boat Pc worklog

                Comment


                • #9
                  I made a mistake when i said phase distortion i ment even-order distortion. you still may not know what im talking about but if you check this out
                  http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/show...t=14036&page=7 The first post on the page is from a book I have and shows what combinations remove even order distortion

                  I may end up with two JL subs that handle 1000W RMS each......maybe
                  Brown 2010

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Sidewalksalvage View Post
                    I may end up with two JL subs that handle 1000W RMS each......maybe
                    i just picked up a w7 myself
                    New System in progress:
                    M10k
                    Phaze TD1500 ~> Dynaudio MD130
                    Phaze TD1500 ~> Seas g18rnx/p
                    Zapco Ref 500.1 ~ 12" tc-9
                    Behringer DCX2496 ~ Envision Electronics psu
                    Transflective Xenarc

                    My Car Pc Install
                    My Boat Pc worklog

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by scott_fx View Post
                      i just picked up a w7 myself
                      REALLY thats awsome man... thats exactly the sub i was thinking of too...
                      Brown 2010

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Okay so I now know plenty about subs...

                        But what about component systems?
                        If i have clean signal 150w RMS it wont hurt speakers rated for 75W RMS

                        I really dont want to damage the speakers especially if im going to invest a pretty penny on them....

                        What would be too much for them
                        For example JL's Evolution XR653-CS They are rated at 70W RMS if i put four sets on a Alpine PDX 4.150 (which puts out 150RMS per channel) would I be at risk for blowing the set?

                        Granted I never put my volume maxed out but i dont want to be in a situation where i have to fear putting the volume too high

                        btw thanks scott!
                        Brown 2010

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The Verdict?

                          Alright Well tons of research later.....

                          Ive been checking out page after page on amplifier and speaker power matching and now to share with all:

                          There are 2 main ways to damage your speaker.

                          1. Underpower
                          2. Overpower

                          Seems basic and obvious but what you may not know is that underpowering is probably worse than overpowering.

                          If you play a speaker overpower, unless its like 1000W to a 25W speaker, overpowering isnt the most critical problem. A speaker can usually handle twice its rated power coming from the amp (ie a 75W speaker will operate well with a 150W amp) Its actually suggested to run a setup as such because overpowering is less of a problem than underpowering. Even that 1000W amp can drive that 25W speaker forever as long as you dont pump the volume over 2% (and the speaker will even operate at peak efficency).
                          If you run the speaker to long at too high a wattage what will happen is mechanical falure the cone will bust out of the speaker.

                          Underpowering is much worse. If you have an amp that puts out say 50W per channel and you hook a 200W speaker to it and pump up the volume what will happen is the amp will be pushing itself past its limit and sound clipping will occur. A clean signal moves fluidly in a occilating manner. When you have clipping its like an on off switch (take a light for example if you dim it on and off over and over it will be fine but flick it on and off to its extremes over and over and the thing will bust) the same is true for a speaker when you send it distorted clipped signal the cone will pop in and out the wiring will likely melt or fry and the cone can potentially rip. Not good at all.

                          This is why the recommendation is for greater watts from the amp than the speaker can handle. This way whe the speaker trys to pull its maximum power to reproduce your loud volume the amp will have plenty of headroom to provide you with clean sound. Granted go to high and the distortion will start on the speaker end and you will have crap sound.

                          Now remember something else here when i say watts i mean RMS or continuous power (RMS actually means Root Mean Square but you dont really need to know that) 'Peak' Power is this imaginary number that are given just to make the amps look good. Its a "potential" number that for over less than a moment the amp can put out. Also remember that IMPEDENCE (or resistance) IS VERY IMPORTANT!!!!! I cant stress that more.

                          Im not going into huge detail about how to put your speakers in series and parallel to change impedence well save that for another day. But you want to match your impedence of the speakers at or above what the amp is rated for! If you go below the amp will fry (think of it as short circuiting the amp) and if you put to much your speakers will not get as much power (if you double the impedence, the wattage is cut in half i.e. inverse porportional)

                          I think thats all.......

                          so in answer to my question if i put 75W speakers on a 150W amp ill be perfect.... i just better not put the volume at max....at least not for too long

                          **** thats a long post.
                          Brown 2010

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            haha. very good. i have 300 watts going to my doors :-O you'll be fine
                            New System in progress:
                            M10k
                            Phaze TD1500 ~> Dynaudio MD130
                            Phaze TD1500 ~> Seas g18rnx/p
                            Zapco Ref 500.1 ~ 12" tc-9
                            Behringer DCX2496 ~ Envision Electronics psu
                            Transflective Xenarc

                            My Car Pc Install
                            My Boat Pc worklog

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Looks like you did a lot of good research on your own. One thing to consider especially when overpowering your speakers is the frequency and crossover points. For example the tweeters in my car are rated 15wrms. They should have no problem with 30wrms as long as it is within there frequency range. If I were to send them a 500hz tone at 30wrms they would probably pop. But at 3000hz no prob.

                              I'm just learning about this myself so if someone else can explain this better please do.

                              Comment

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