Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Soundcard suggestion for 4 way active setup!

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Soundcard suggestion for 4 way active setup!

    Hi,

    Nowadays I began to buy new goodies for my new setup. I bought two DLS A3's and one DLS A6. I found a DLS A2 and probably I'm going to buy it. With two A3 and one A2 I'll be setting up the front speakers as 3 way active. I'll be using Helix Rs6.3 as speakers.

    For the new system I need a soundcard which have 8 outputs and is asio compatible. I found ESI gigaport Hd; but I read a post that its signal voltage is low so users could need pre-amps... I don't want to use preamps. I normally use usb soundcards but I have pci-ex slot also.
    ---------
    I want a soundcard which is compatible with asio, can be used with audiomulch and console without asio4all, has 8 channels, has sufficient output voltage (not in a need in extreme high), has bright, clear, high sound quality and compatible with hibernate and sleep.
    ---------
    Is there a soundcard like I want? If you can help me out I'll be very happy...

  • #2
    m-audio delta 1010LT

    8 rca outputs, PCI, ASIO, internal routing
    Check my worklog:
    Corsa + Atom + Gentoo Linux + 9" capacitive touchscreen

    Lord of the boards: DFI CP100-NRM

    "Or you can try Ubuntu, but than don't tell everyone you are using linux,
    because it's just a secret unreleased prebeta of Windows 3829" :P

    Comment


    • #3
      A good option; but I only have pci-express, not pci. So I can only use pci-express cards and usb cards...

      And also I want to set up my system in windows 7. Asio drivers, audiomulch etc. is windows 7 compatible right?

      Comment


      • #4
        For PCIe:

        -Asus xonar hdav 1.3 deluxe, has ASIO, but dunno about internal routing.
        -2x ESI Maya44e
        -ESI ESP1010e
        -RME HDSPe, with 2 output expansion cards, a bit overkill/expensive tough.
        Check my worklog:
        Corsa + Atom + Gentoo Linux + 9" capacitive touchscreen

        Lord of the boards: DFI CP100-NRM

        "Or you can try Ubuntu, but than don't tell everyone you are using linux,
        because it's just a secret unreleased prebeta of Windows 3829" :P

        Comment


        • #5
          to add to the gigaporthd problems--its asio driver package only has outputs, no inputs, so i haven't found a way to get sound into AM without using either a4a (if using a4a, do not install the asio drivers for the gigaport-- they mess with a4a, and a4a will show a sound card error), or using the windows drivers...

          otherwise, after adding my cl-rlc preamps, i am very happy with the sound of the gigaport.

          also, make sure that if you do upgrade to win7, to use the 32 bit version-- most plugins are 32bit, and, from what i have read, don't work the same on a 64bit system.


          on a slightly related note, if you have any ideas on how to get audio into AM while using asio output drivers, i would be happy to hear them.
          My OLD 2001 Mitsubishi Eclipse GT:
          "The Project That Never Ended, until it did"


          next project? subaru brz
          carpc undecided

          Comment


          • #6
            I saw that problem of Gigaport Hd. So I'm looking for another card. I have only one pci express slot. I can use usb cards though; but until now I couldn't find a card that can do my job... At least in the price range of Gigaport Hd... I liked Onkyo 200; but it uses pci...

            Comment


            • #7
              If you're open to alternative solutions, you might think of using a cheap soundcard that has bitperfect digital output along with MiniDSP . You can find more info on other audio forums eg here.

              For a cheap soundcard with bitperfect output, i would suggest a cheap cmi8738(like Terratec Aureon, I got it for around 10-15 Euros, so I'd expect that you could get a similar soundcard for less than 15 USD). You'll need these third party drivers, although I believe newest cmedia divers work also. Careful that cmi8738 is 16-bit, so if you're doing a volume control in the digital domain (windows volume control) and especially if you're using windows xp, you might better look for a 24 bit soundcard. MiniDSP gives you the ability to control volume also, but I'm not sure on how it works. You can find info on the links I've given above.

              Hope this helps

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by qpwoeiruty999 View Post
                If you're open to alternative solutions, you might think of using a cheap soundcard that has bitperfect digital output along with MiniDSP . You can find more info on other audio forums eg here.

                For a cheap soundcard with bitperfect output, i would suggest a cheap cmi8738(like Terratec Aureon, I got it for around 10-15 Euros, so I'd expect that you could get a similar soundcard for less than 15 USD). You'll need these third party drivers, although I believe newest cmedia divers work also. Careful that cmi8738 is 16-bit, so if you're doing a volume control in the digital domain (windows volume control) and especially if you're using windows xp, you might better look for a 24 bit soundcard. MiniDSP gives you the ability to control volume also, but I'm not sure on how it works. You can find info on the links I've given above.

                Hope this helps
                hmm, i am really on the fence on this one-- it seems that the minidsp is similar to a rf360, or a bitone, which, imo, isn't as good as a soundcard/AM setup in terms of flexibility.

                the biggest issue for me is that you are limited to their plugins, that they charge $10 each for. granted, it is not much, but for me, it is a disadvantage because of the idea that you need to buy extra stuff to get this card to work the way it is intended..

                but at the same time, even buying all the plugins, and a minidsp puts you back only about $160, way less then a rf360, or bitone.

                but it only has 4 outputs.. most setups that go to the length of needing a dsp, are usually going to need on average, 5-6 channels(at least 4 front active channels, and a sub output, or 4 front/rear channels and sub), so needing anything above 4 channels up's the purchase to 2 units-- around $260, assuming that you can reuse the plugins on both units... but if you can't reuse the plugins, and have to buy a plugin for each unit, that puts the price at about $320.

                google tells me that rf360.2's are going for about $380 new...

                so the question i guess i have is how does the minidsp compare to the rf360, or other external sound processors? not just quality, but also configurablility.

                for comparison, my setup-- audiomulch, gigaport, and 4 cl-rlc preamps were about $350-$450 all together, but i can use any vst plugins that i want-- in fact, i have never had to buy a plugin--all the ones that i use are free from kvraudio, and i have 6 outputs (8 on the soundcard, but only 3 pairs connected to the cl-rlc's). if a plugin doesn't work the way i want, i can get another free one that does the same thing-- last i checked, i have over 15 free crossover plugins...
                My OLD 2001 Mitsubishi Eclipse GT:
                "The Project That Never Ended, until it did"


                next project? subaru brz
                carpc undecided

                Comment


                • #9
                  I agree about the flexibility, since you're only limited to the offerred plugins. Price wise I believe should be close to a "quality" soundcard (including the VST Host application). I currently own an Auzentech X-Meridian (doesn't have internal routing so I can't suggest it, unless you have the time/will to make it work) and It's about the same price (+- 50 USD).

                  You need roughly 2 miniDSP boards (2x100 = 200 USD) + 1 miniDIGI (70 USD only if you need digital input). Plugins need only be purchased once, but I'm not sure how many you need. I guess you need 1 or 2 (had a look on just 4Way PEQ plug-in and it seems to do "most" of what someone might need).

                  It's certainly a rough decision and I certainly do not have a personal experience with miniDSP. I had a hard time making my X-Meridian work. I'm quite flexible now but if i had the money I'd propably give miniDSP a shot. Reasons is that miniDSP has an interface that "looks" more user/touchscreen friendly, it seems that other users of it get great support, it relieves my processor since all processing is done on hardware, it gives you the ability to use a pot for volume control (if it's analog then this is evan better - I'm currently using windows volume control with X-Meridian and this certainly puts me off bit-perfect principles) . Of course, I'd wait some time to let others test it and review.

                  On the other hand, my X-Meridian has replaceable opamps and it's certainly more flexible (as you mentioned)

                  Really hard decision .

                  BTW, Auzentech is going to release a new version of X-Meridian. For sure, it won't occupy a cmedia chipset. I've send them an email proposing that internal routing is really important for clients I also send them a big list of problems concerning their current drivers and hardware and they agreed that they should correct them.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    sorry HuseyinOzsut, kind of hijacking the thread..

                    for the volume control-the windows control is horrible--i am one that tries to keep my stereo in check at stoplights, and then let it loose while moving, and in chicago, it was a horrible distraction--it usually took over the span of a red light to get it turned down, an then it took another 15 seconds leaving the light to get it back up to what i wanted it to--and 15 seconds after one red light in chicago is enough to hit another red light-- and the process continues until i get *****ed, and leave it down... that is the reason i went with the cl-rlc's--i needed a preamp, and a volume control, and preferred not to run the audio all the way to the front for volume control, and then back to the trunk... the cl-rlc's have a remote mountable knob that tells the preamp how loud to go(jl didn't want to tell me if it was digital or analog control), and works great-- if only my speakers could handle the power...
                    My OLD 2001 Mitsubishi Eclipse GT:
                    "The Project That Never Ended, until it did"


                    next project? subaru brz
                    carpc undecided

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Well, volume control should certainly be a decision factor for HuseyinOzsut, so I don't think it's hijacking at all! The cl-rlc's is certainly preferable than windows XP volume control (at least for me). If it's analog then it's prefect but if it's digital, then you'd need to go AD and then DA. Although this is not a disaster, it might impair quality slightly I'd guess.

                      BTW, can you share which free VST plugins you're using?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        So when using audiomulch or console, volume control is a problem? Why is that? is it hard for windows to increase and decrease volumes of all channels linearly? My dream about going active with soundcard will be harder than I thought I guess?? Will all soundcards and in all dsp programs, does this volume problem exist?

                        I live in Turkey and here the traffic is like hell!! No lane lines in the road, even if there is, no one cares about them. No one cares about pedestrians and they are used to it so they can rush to the road anywhere, anytime!! So to drive safely here we generally need maximum attention! So yes I need a simple volume control and I will be using Centrafuse.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Well, the problem is not linearity (is that the correct word?). The problem is that attenuating a digital signal causes a loss in resolution. In that aspect, Vista or Windows 7 is better than XP, because calculations are done in 32 bits (if i remember correctly). KMixer in XP, does the calculation in 16 bits, effectively causing a loss in reslution. The more the attenuation is the more chances you're going to notice the loss in resolution. So, if i was to use windows 7, i wouln't care so much. Under windows XP, you could be a little more creative. In my case, I'm using Reaper as a vst host, which supports sending keyboard shortcuts. Using autoit or a similar scripting language, makes it easy to control reaper's volume controls, which make the calculations in my soundcard's resolution (24 bits in my case). My windows volume control is set to 100% (No attenuation by KMixer).

                          At the end of the day, it's your decision. If you want to give more info about your experience, knowledge, how much you're willing to spend etc I'm sure many experienced posters are willing to help you. I'm not so experienced, nor my knowledge is academic or scientific, but I'll definitely try to help you

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by HuseyinOzsut View Post
                            So when using audiomulch or console, volume control is a problem? Why is that? is it hard for windows to increase and decrease volumes of all channels linearly? My dream about going active with soundcard will be harder than I thought I guess?? Will all soundcards and in all dsp programs, does this volume problem exist?

                            I live in Turkey and here the traffic is like hell!! No lane lines in the road, even if there is, no one cares about them. No one cares about pedestrians and they are used to it so they can rush to the road anywhere, anytime!! So to drive safely here we generally need maximum attention! So yes I need a simple volume control and I will be using Centrafuse.
                            lol, i read a article in a car mag once on the traffic in that area, not something i desire to try to survive...

                            the volume control is more related to Windows, then it is any audio processing program.

                            if you use Virtual Audio Cable to get the signal into the vst host, it does have programming to be allowed to be controlled by the windows volume control(just set it as your primary audio output).

                            the windows volume control relies on the processor to make adjustments, and the more cpu power you use, the slower the volume control is going to be--this is why most evident in carputers using audio processing because the audio processing can use the cpu so much.

                            normally, audio processing will slow down your computer a little, so things like switching playlists take a little longer-which is not big deal for a playlist to take 1 second longer to pop up, but it is not as noticable as trying to change the volume-- where it is expected to be quick.

                            the disadvantage to using the computer volume control is system freezes-- if your computer freezes at full volume, you have to let it go. an external knob will allow you to turn it down, and at least get off the road to trouble shoot..

                            i would highly recommend researching external volume controls-- there are a couple of options-- just for some ideas, i am posting sonic electronix links, but there are plenty of other places/companies that make/sell similar products:

                            this is one of the many analog knobs that simply ties into the rca's:
                            http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...+Control-.html

                            the advantage is that it is small, cheap, and simple, the disadvantage is that it is only stereo(though i have seen 4 channel versions), and you must run rca's to and from it-- and for most audiophile-type audio systems, long rca runs are bad.

                            you might be able to find a knob that you can re-work to control multiple stereo pairs, but i haven't seen one yet..

                            what i use:
                            http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...io+CL-RLC.html

                            a preamp, and remote mountable volume control, and they are linkable, so you could have one volume knob controlling multiple units(i have one knob controlling 3 units).
                            from what i can gather, the preamp is completely analog, so the signal is not getting changed too much. the disadvantage is the cost--about $50 ea.

                            otherwise, there are eq's like this that can also have a volume control, some like this one has a preamp also:
                            http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...nics+HFEQ.html

                            the disadvantage for a audiomulch/console setup being that it has one stereo input, and internally crosses over all the speakers, and that you have to run all the rcas to it.
                            My OLD 2001 Mitsubishi Eclipse GT:
                            "The Project That Never Ended, until it did"


                            next project? subaru brz
                            carpc undecided

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              ok. Now I have to find a way to have my volume control software based. Because My car Pc is in trunk, so my soundcad. I use 80cm Acoustic Research audio cables from soundcard to amplifiers... So everything is ideal, except volume control! I can use (actually I want to use) windows 7, it is not a problem for me. I own hippo hi-fi usb dac. But if I buy a new soundcard I'll be using it in my home stereo! So I prefer to buy a new card and solve Active crossover need with my new soundcard. But if it will be painfull, I'll go for a Audioson Bitone (I don't want to do it, because then I'll be buying audioson bitone and another high quality soundcard for home! And also the fun part of owing a carputer is to be able to say: "All these things are done by it, and I did all of it!!")

                              So I can not go for an analog volume control. If you can say that volume control in windows 7 won't effect the sound quality much, then I'll take it... But I tried VAC and didn't like it much... Can we have a solution in windows 7 without VAC? (Considering that I own a soundcard, which is ASIO compatible and has internal routing.)

                              My carputer is Core2 DUO 2.33 with 2Gb ddr2 800 ram and 32gb ssd system hdd. So I guess ı won't have performance problems much?

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X