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  • ELM327 possibilities

    Hello,
    I bought ELM327 interface and connect it to the car, it connect to car and read all standard things, but I would like ask you few questions regarding using of elm327.
    1. I tryed it with my car Renault Scenic year 2005 and from original Renault service tool and service manual I can see that most of ECUs in car are on CAN (http://ilanovo.sk/01.jpg) but ScanMasterELM connected via KWP (http://ilanovo.sk/02.jpg) is this possiblle ???

    2. On car I see message "Check Injection" but I can't see any trouble codes in mode $03. I assumming that ScanMaster is automatically connecting to this ECU "Injection" - ECM address (&7A). I did $04 for erasing everything but I still can see message "Check Injection"

    3. Can I connect to others ECU like automatic parking brake ($0D) and read parameters. I have diagnostic manual where I can see the numbers like: PR001 - battery voltage, PR006 - position of the clutch pedal ....

    Thanks for any help ....

  • #2
    Originally posted by technak View Post
    Hello,
    I bought ELM327 interface and connect it to the car, it connect to car and read all standard things, but I would like ask you few questions regarding using of elm327.
    1. I tryed it with my car Renault Scenic year 2005 and from original Renault service tool and service manual I can see that most of ECUs in car are on CAN (http://ilanovo.sk/01.jpg) but ScanMasterELM connected via KWP (http://ilanovo.sk/02.jpg) is this possiblle ???
    Yes, you probably have a KWP gateway.

    2. On car I see message "Check Injection" but I can't see any trouble codes in mode $03. I assumming that ScanMaster is automatically connecting to this ECU "Injection" - ECM address (&7A). I did $04 for erasing everything but I still can see message "Check Injection"
    ScanMaster tells you which ECU it is connected to (right there on the start page).

    3. Can I connect to others ECU like automatic parking brake ($0D) and read parameters. I have diagnostic manual where I can see the numbers like: PR001 - battery voltage, PR006 - position of the clutch pedal ....
    I doubt it. PR001 is not a valid DTC number, so I'm guessing the ECU is using a proprietary Renault protocol.

    If you don't mind me asking, how much did you pay for this solution (ELM327 + ScanMaster)?

    Vitaliy
    OBDLink MX: world's smallest, fastest, most advanced OBD/Bluetooth adapter with SW and MS CAN support. Read the review to learn more.
    Need to look up a diagnostic trouble code? Try the most up-to-date, free DTCsearch.com!

    You cannot send me a private message using this forum. Use my email instead: vitaliy[@]scantool.net.

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi,

      first thank you very much for your answers.

      ELM327 cost me cca. 150 EUR but it's used.

      What is kwp gateway ?? It is installed on car or in elm327 ? Could by bypassed some way so I can connect using CAN ?

      I know that ScanMaster tell me where I am connected but it shows $7A - Lighting in renault SW is $7A Injection ECM so I was thinking that I am connected to the right ECU but cannot see any error codes.

      Is there some cmd for ELM to see all live ECUs in a car something like listening heartbeats of ECUs ?

      Propably need some study :-(

      Comment


      • #4
        ELM will only connect to Engine and Automatic gearbox if you have one.
        For all other systems you need an aftermarket scanner of Renault dealer equipment.

        Check injection probably caused by a DTC set in the Renault diagnostic part. Have the codes read and reset by the dealer.

        Comment


        • #5
          first thanks for your answers.

          vvmaks: the price was around 150 EUR (used) :-(

          What do you mean by "Renault proprietary" if I know that all ecu's are connected by CAN which is standard ?

          Is it possible for example to see which active ECUs are on CAN with ELM327

          Thanks and regards,

          Comment


          • #6
            all ecu's are connected by CAN which is standard ?
            Well, only the wires are standard. Not the way they talk to each other. Every manufacturer has it's own set of addresses and commands that differ from EOBD rules.
            For Renault this is called Renault proprietary. It means Renault's own protocol.

            Is it possible for example to see which active ECU's are on CAN with ELM327
            No, NEVER. Not only applies to Renault, it applies to ALL manufacturers.
            Besides that, there are more buses in the car (3 to 5) and you can only see 1 of them with the ELM327. The other buses have different speeds which again are manufacturer specific. Some makes (Citroen, Peugeot) even use buses which look like Can but in fact they are not - these are called VAN.

            ELM327 will ONLY connect to the Engine and an Automatic Gearbox.

            Comment


            • #7
              now understand thanks for explanation ...

              Comment


              • #8
                Well, I've scanned my bus for modules. It's not something that's easy to do though.

                I have a utility which lets me increment one or more bytes in a query frame and issue repetitive queries. (Much easier to do with a J2534 device than with an ELM327)

                So for example, I've run a scan that increments just the header, starting at 700 and going to 7FF, and then had the query set to 220200 - a request for DTC count, a query that should in theory be supported on every module in the system.

                I know that half that header address space is for replies, but that's OK, because if there was nothing there to respond I'd get a timeout, and if there WAS something there I'd get a response.

                I used the same technique to do scans from 0000 to FFFF on each module to find their Mode22 PIDs or for Mode23 offsets. I get a no-data message on faliures, but something wuold come back on valid PIDs.

                I've even been able to use the same process for module and PID scanning of the modules on my ISO9141 bus. It takes a long time - I usually did a module a night while my car was hooked up to a 22Amp 13.8V DC power supply.

                Now I don't know if this could be done for every kind of vehicle, but there's no way to know if you don't try....


                Lukeyson

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                • #9
                  thanks for info. If I know that for example parking brake is on address $0D what command could I try to scans it from 0000 to FFFF to find their Mode22 PIDs or for Mode23 offsets via ELM327 ?
                  Thanks
                  Milan

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Lukeyson View Post
                    Well, I've scanned my bus for modules. It's not something that's easy to do though.

                    I have a utility which lets me increment one or more bytes in a query frame and issue repetitive queries. (Much easier to do with a J2534 device than with an ELM327)

                    So for example, I've run a scan that increments just the header, starting at 700 and going to 7FF, and then had the query set to 220200 - a request for DTC count, a query that should in theory be supported on every module in the system.

                    I know that half that header address space is for replies, but that's OK, because if there was nothing there to respond I'd get a timeout, and if there WAS something there I'd get a response.

                    I used the same technique to do scans from 0000 to FFFF on each module to find their Mode22 PIDs or for Mode23 offsets. I get a no-data message on faliures, but something wuold come back on valid PIDs.

                    I've even been able to use the same process for module and PID scanning of the modules on my ISO9141 bus. It takes a long time - I usually did a module a night while my car was hooked up to a 22Amp 13.8V DC power supply.

                    Now I don't know if this could be done for every kind of vehicle, but there's no way to know if you don't try....


                    Lukeyson
                    That's cool. Were you using DrewTech's J2534?

                    Vitaliy
                    OBDLink MX: world's smallest, fastest, most advanced OBD/Bluetooth adapter with SW and MS CAN support. Read the review to learn more.
                    Need to look up a diagnostic trouble code? Try the most up-to-date, free DTCsearch.com!

                    You cannot send me a private message using this forum. Use my email instead: vitaliy[@]scantool.net.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Yep, a Mongoose CAN/ISO. I didn't use their j2534 software tool though, I used a component of the CardiX SDK called IPSecOsMsgMon.

                      Look for a guy on these forums by the name of Carlocutor.

                      And technak, I'm not sure that I'd call the 'Parking Brake' a 'module' - my concept of a 'Module' or 'ECU' is that it's a processor-based device, a small computer brain if you like. In my car the Park Brake is an input to one of these 'Modules', so might the number you quote be the address of this data within the module rather than the module address?

                      I know some of the CAN and PWM/SCP/ISO addresses for Ford modules, and yes, the number you provide does look like an address of that type, but I am of no help when it comes to the addressing of modules for Renault I'm afraid.


                      Lukeyson

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                      • #12
                        Hi!

                        I've got an ElmScan 5 with Bluetooth and as far as I know it has the Elm327 chip inside.

                        I've tried several applications to log the information going and coming to my car. The intention is try to discover some propietary messages that my Opel Astra GTC uses.

                        For example, I would like to connect the logger, turn on the lights and see what's the message travelling along the canbus so I can modify or use it on my own software.

                        Is all this possible using my ElmScan 5 and some piece of software?

                        Thanks in advance!
                        Opel Astra GTC

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Tempesta48 View Post
                          Hi!

                          I've got an ElmScan 5 with Bluetooth and as far as I know it has the Elm327 chip inside.

                          I've tried several applications to log the information going and coming to my car. The intention is try to discover some propietary messages that my Opel Astra GTC uses.

                          For example, I would like to connect the logger, turn on the lights and see what's the message travelling along the canbus so I can modify or use it on my own software.

                          Is all this possible using my ElmScan 5 and some piece of software?

                          Thanks in advance!
                          You don't need any proprietary software; any RS232 terminal will do (e.g., Hyperterminal).

                          You're right -- ElmScan 5 Bluetooth has the ELM327 IC. You can download the datasheet from Elm Electronics' website.

                          To monitor messages on the bus, use the ATMA command. You can also filter messages using ATMT and ATMR (by transmitter and receiver, respectively). On CAN, you can set up masks and filters. It's all described in the datasheet, but if you want step-by-step instructions, let me know.

                          Vitaliy
                          OBDLink MX: world's smallest, fastest, most advanced OBD/Bluetooth adapter with SW and MS CAN support. Read the review to learn more.
                          Need to look up a diagnostic trouble code? Try the most up-to-date, free DTCsearch.com!

                          You cannot send me a private message using this forum. Use my email instead: vitaliy[@]scantool.net.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Is it possible to send CAN frames with an ELM327?
                            Ashley - http://www.nfspmotorsports.com
                            Check out my car club.

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