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  • Enhanced PIDs from ISO-documents?

    Hello,

    Posted this also under development... but saw this subforum later

    Im software engineer student doing my Bachelor project in a company. My goal is to connect to any vehicle using OBD-II (ELM327 chosen), and to get various data. After some research i come to that only some generic PIDs are available for the common man.. But what I need is to get is the enhanced data, such as co2 for example. I found out that you can get this information from certain ISO-documents that you have to buy. I found a specific one that seems like the best: ISO 14229-1:2006

    So I wonder if anyone had any experience with this documents, and do they contain more PIDs that are generic, or is it very specific from manufacturer to manufacturer?

    Any help would be very helpful as this documents are quite expensive (250$)

  • #2
    ISO and SAE only specify the generic part of EOBD/OBD2. The manuals have different names but the content is the same between an ISO document and its counterpart from the SAE.
    Enhanced data is manufacturer specific and even more difficult to find than the generic data and they are not for sale anyware.
    Are you sure you need co2 (carbondioxide)? Don't you mean O2 values (oxygen sensor values)?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by RoarF View Post
      So I wonder if anyone had any experience with this documents, and do they contain more PIDs that are generic, or is it very specific from manufacturer to manufacturer?
      Completely different from manufacturer to manufacturer if you want to go beyond OBD2. The ISO documents are extremely expensive compared to the SAE documents, but they're technically equivalent. You won't find much interesting there. If you bother stick with the SAE documents since they're significantly cheaper.

      Unfortunately the automakers release enhanced information through a scantool industry organization and membership costs $10k+ per year. Contact www.etools.org if you want to try for membership but all university students that I've ever referred have come up dry. I suggest changing projects if you can't get what you need from OBD2

      Comment


      • #4
        Roarf, don't you get any support from the company you say you work for?
        Is this just for fun or are they planning to do something with your software? If so, then they can afford to buy a couple of SAE-standards. You would need at least Sae J1979 to see the latest specification. There are a lot more pids and functions than you can find on the internet. This will be the best spend 61 dollars of your live.
        See what has changed here: http://engineers.ihs.com/document/ab...QIACAAAAAAAAAA

        How much time do you have for this project?

        Comment


        • #5
          p2psmurf, are you suggesting that for $61 you'd get access to all enhanced(manufacturer specific) PIDs for ALL manufacturers ? And a document about SAE J1979 will have all that information ?

          Comment


          • #6
            Were did you read enhanced? I think the above statement is very clear: "ISO and SAE only specify the generic part of EOBD/OBD2."
            The advice was triggered by the following statement: "My goal is to connect to any vehicle using OBD-II (ELM327 chosen), and to get various data."
            The keyword here us "any". that includes the newest vehicles that use the 2007 spec of J1979. If you wan to read the generic data from such a vehicle you will need the latest spec from the SAE.

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            • #7
              Read the original post again, I suppose you stopped reading half way through. Here is the rest of it again -

              "After some research i come to that only some generic PIDs are available for the common man.. But what I need is to get is the enhanced data"

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              • #8
                and duh...the title of the thread itself!! - "Enhanced PIDs from ISO documents"

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                • #9
                  Why don't you read the whole thread? Two people have explained that such a thing does not exist.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Ok, thanks for answers

                    What i really need is to get enviromental related data.. If there was a PID for Co2 that would be great.. will there be specified more PIDs in SAE J1979 than you could read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBD-II_PIDs ?

                    And yes my company could afford to buy some standards... And if it applies only to newer cars its no problem... only as long as it is a standard..

                    Im greatfull for any answers

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Wikipedia has the pids up to 0x4E plus 0x51 and 0x52.
                      The latest Sae document has pids up to 0x87 as you can see if you follow the link I supplied, so that's a lot more.

                      You really need the standard, there are a couple of tricks that are not found anywhere.
                      Like how do you know if the car has 2 banks or 4 banks of O2 sensors and what the implications are.

                      I am interested to know how you are going to test your software and how long do you think that will take.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by RoarF View Post
                        Ok, thanks for answers

                        What i really need is to get enviromental related data.. If there was a PID for Co2 that would be great.. will there be specified more PIDs in SAE J1979 than you could read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBD-II_PIDs ?

                        And yes my company could afford to buy some standards... And if it applies only to newer cars its no problem... only as long as it is a standard..

                        Im greatfull for any answers
                        RoarF, it seems to me that you can calculate the CO2 output the same way people calculate the MPG. You can get the air flow rate from OBD-II, and assume a 100% burn.

                        Vitaliy
                        OBDLink MX: world's smallest, fastest, most advanced OBD/Bluetooth adapter with SW and MS CAN support. Read the review to learn more.
                        Need to look up a diagnostic trouble code? Try the most up-to-date, free DTCsearch.com!

                        You cannot send me a private message using this forum. Use my email instead: vitaliy[@]scantool.net.

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                        • #13
                          Ok, thanks again

                          So if I understand you guys right I will get 135 PIDs from J1979, but I read in a ISO-document i found on the Internet, that "ISO 15031-5:2006 provides a range of 256 PIDs while ISO 14229-1:2006 reserves a range of 512 PIDs for
                          legislative use.".. But it dont say how many you wil find..
                          Also read this that talks about ISO 14229-1: http://engineers.ihs.com/document/ab...VRCAAAAAAAAAAA

                          But if I understand correct now, the J1979 is updated with the newest and (maybe) all the generic PIDs?

                          Would I have more options if I specialized on the CAN-bus only?

                          Thanks again for all the answers, and p2psmurf - I have only 350 hours left of my project Gonna test live in a car comparing to the cars computer data.

                          And thanks for the tip vvmaks, I'll look into that.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Ok, thanks the tips

                            So if I'm right the SAE J1979 cointains all the generic PIDs? 135 or so..
                            Or would I find more in the ISO documents.. or would I get more if I specialized on CAN..

                            I'll think I'll go for vvmaks solution with calculation.. Not sure if there is a CO2 sensor

                            Maybe I have to learn how to read the o2 sensors...

                            -p2p - I havent decided some methods for testing yet, as my project is not as much an application as it is an API.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              So if I'm right the SAE J1979 cointains all the generic PIDs? 135 or so.. YES
                              Or would I find more in the ISO documents.. NO, Iso and Sae content is the same
                              or would I get more if I specialized on CAN.. NO, all pids are for all protocols, however CAN is mandatory from 2008 on. There are a few differences with the Can-protocol but they are related to services 5, 6 and 0x0A, See SAE J1979.

                              I'll think I'll go for vvmaks solution with calculation.. Not sure if there is a CO2 sensor NO, there isn't

                              Maybe I have to learn how to read the o2 sensors... See SAE J1979

                              I havent decided some methods for testing yet, as my project is not as much an application as it is an API.
                              This is going to be interesting, keep me informed when you have.
                              Let's assume your software is ready and the first bugs are out.
                              You connect to a vehicle and start reading the data.
                              Now the engine reports a coolant temperature of 90 degrees Centigrade.
                              The gearbox reports a coolant temperature of 40 degrees Centigrade.
                              How can you proof which system is wrong here - the engine controller, the gearbox controller, the Elm device or your software?

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