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A "ODB II" solution for cars without ODB II? Audrino-people look here.

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  • A "ODB II" solution for cars without ODB II? Audrino-people look here.

    Hi

    First let me introduce myself. My name is Tom, and I'm from Norway.
    The reason I'm here is that I've started my first "project car" and I would love to have a pc in my car!

    So anyways, I posted this on Auto Meter Products .INC's Facebook page:

    Me:
    Is there any plans for sensors senders that could be connected to a car pc? I Know I'd pay good money if I could get Vacuum/Boost, Fuel Pressure, Oil Pressure, Oil Temperature, Voltmeter and Water temperature on a single screen instead of filling the small space in my car with gauges. I own a 91 Toyota MR2 turbo so connecting to OBD II is not possible, I guess alot of people with older cars would be interested in this product if you were to produce it. Please contact me if you want to know more about the system I've thought out.

    Auto meter:
    All of our sensors for our data acquisition line operate on a 0-5v reference and could fairly easily be integrated into most systems. You can see them here: http://autometer.com/cat_data.aspx?sid=80
    You might also consider using one of our Multifunciton Dash Logger systems. These integrate all of your sensors into one small cluster. They also log your data right in the unit itself. Here's a link: http://autometer.com/dataloggers.aspx
    I'd welcome you to give us a call here (866.248.6356) as we try to configure these setups to each individual user.


    Me:
    I was thinking more in the line of something like this:
    http://swirlybits-tech.blogspot.com/...se-part-3.html
    Just for cars that don't have a ODB II port. Individual sensors going to a unit that is recognizable in Windows for integration to existing car-pc's. This is a huge un-tapped market for you guys to explore. Send me a message on facebook for discussion over mail.

    Autometer:
    Ultimately it depends on the capabilities of the Car PC. if it can be configured to read a 0-5v signal, you're in business (we do this on a lot of projects with standalone fuel systems or even other consumer level data systems).


    Me:Ultimately it depends on the capabilities of the Car PC. A car-pc today can be equipped with dual core cpu's, 4 gb ram etc these days. No computer has a port which would be able to read the signals from your sensors without a serious amount of tinkering.

    A audrino unit would probably do the trick, but this is way past my manufacturing and coding skills and probably very many other customers too.

    A option on your behalf would be a unit that converts the signals from the sensors you've mentioned above to something that could be read by a car-pc through a usb, serial or com port. That way you would only need to produce one new product. This would also make it sort of a plug and play system, which would draw more customers.

    Run a poll on it on your facebook site and you'll see what a huge part of customers which would be interested in this.

    Now am I right, that the right audrino-guru could make something like this happen? If that's the case, that would be awesome and I'd be more than willing to pay up for a system like this that works and I'm sure a lot of other Centrafuse users will as well.

  • #2
    Originally posted by randomher0 View Post
    A option on your behalf would be a unit that converts the signals from the sensors you've mentioned above to something that could be read by a car-pc through a usb, serial or com port. That way you would only need to produce one new product. This would also make it sort of a plug and play system, which would draw more customers.
    There are existing solutions for this like the Innovate Modular Tuning System. This system has distributed sender modules around the car (forming a daisy-chain network) and interfaces with the PC. There are plenty of others but this is a full featured productline.

    I disagree with the statement about drawing more customers. In my experience, PC users are a niche compared to the volume of standalone gauge systems.

    Comment


    • #3
      There are existing solutions for this like the Innovate Modular Tuning System. This system has distributed sender modules around the car (forming a daisy-chain network) and interfaces with the PC. There are plenty of others but this is a full featured productline.
      Care to share some links to the systems you know of? Thanks in advance.

      I disagree with the statement about drawing more customers. In my experience, PC users are a niche compared to the volume of standalone gauge systems.
      I was merely stating that I thought if Auto Meter made a box themselves, I'd think there be a lot of car-pc owners interested in their system. Not that pc-gauges was gonna replace standard gauges any day soon.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by randomher0 View Post
        Care to share some links to the systems you know of? Thanks in advance.
        PLX Devices makes a series of sensor modules that can be hooked to the PC. Zeitronix makes an excellent wideband O2 controller that can also send pressure and temperature sensors to the PC. Outside the automotive market you can use thermocouple-to-USB senders from Phidgets. There's a few.... There is no shortage of this kind of stuff on the market.

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks for all the links mate! To new readers of this post, do not hesitate posting more links to more of the same stuff! Everything that could be used to make a system like the one described above is interesting.

          My personal goal is to integrate in into centrafuse, so if anyone has some tips on that, or have files necessary please post them or PM me.

          Comment


          • #6
            You realize that the Fusion Brain, by 2k1Toaster on this forum, has the same input capabilities as you are talking about (0-5 volts), integrates seamlessly with Windows, and comes with the MDX Configurator software and costs $60 USD?

            The sensor part is your job, but others have already done some work on this forum with non-OBDII cars and the Fusion Brain.
            Originally posted by ghettocruzer
            I was gung ho on building a PC [until] just recently. However, between my new phone having internet and GPS and all...and this kit...Im starting to have trouble justfiying it haha.
            Want to:
            -Find out about the new iBug iPad install?
            -Find out about carPC's in just 5 minutes? View the Car PC 101 video

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi Tom, fellow Norwegian here.

              My thoughts where for the FusionBrain as well.
              Do you have stock ECU or have you changed it?
              I suggest you change it in your MR2. http://www.krbtrading.no/motorstyring
              I would suggest the Autronic SM4

              I would think that Autronic Dash logger have the stuff you need.

              btw: feel free to PM me in Norwegian if you want to, but if we keep it here in English, others might follow your lead!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Bugbyte View Post
                You realize that the Fusion Brain, by 2k1Toaster on this forum, has the same input capabilities as you are talking about (0-5 volts), integrates seamlessly with Windows, and comes with the MDX Configurator software and costs $60 USD?

                The sensor part is your job, but others have already done some work on this forum with non-OBDII cars and the Fusion Brain.
                No, I'm fairly new at this car-pc stuff. And have no experience with programming chips etc.
                What I was hoping for was a "buy these parts, connect them toghether and load this program/script into centrafuse solution" if such a thing exists.

                Hi Tom, fellow Norwegian here.

                My thoughts where for the FusionBrain as well.
                Do you have stock ECU or have you changed it?
                I suggest you change it in your MR2. http://www.krbtrading.no/motorstyring
                I would suggest the Autronic SM4

                I would think that Autronic Dash logger have the stuff you need.

                btw: feel free to PM me in Norwegian if you want to, but if we keep it here in English, others might follow your lead!
                Hi!

                I have a stock ECU as of now, actually the car is pretty stock.
                I am actually searching for a good aftermarket ECU, but I could really need one that supports multiple mappings. My insurance company is already killing me and I wanna go for 300-350 rwhp. So I'm looking for a ECU which could support a "inefficient stock" mapping in case of troubles with the insurance company.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Bugbyte View Post
                  You realize that the Fusion Brain, by 2k1Toaster on this forum, has the same input capabilities as you are talking about (0-5 volts), integrates seamlessly with Windows, and comes with the MDX Configurator software and costs $60 USD?

                  The sensor part is your job, but others have already done some work on this forum with non-OBDII cars and the Fusion Brain.
                  arduino and fusion brain comparison is not fair, its like linux and windows.
                  and yall are forgettin about Colin's Qube (he needs some encouragement to continue dev )

                  ive been working on a similar projects with the arduino. so far i've completed a complete tach gauge for my bike, everything from the flyback voltage from the coils/tci to the stepper motor that displays the rpm (still on a breadboard though). the rest of the guages should be easy... but i dont really know howto to communicate that to a comp interface, getting it to the comp via usb is no problem but i dont know to do with that info from there (software-unwise).

                  apparently my post was slow to load...

                  Originally posted by randomher0 View Post
                  No, I'm fairly new at this car-pc stuff. And have no experience with programming chips etc.
                  What I was hoping for was a "buy these parts, connect them toghether and load this program/script into centrafuse solution" if such a thing exists.
                  +1 on plx devices. they arent cheap but really nice. and their data-logging software looks alot like dash command, maybe it will be easy to pipe info to cetrafuse? sorry i am software noobie

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    arduino and fusion brain comparison is not fair, its like linux and windows.
                    and yall are forgettin about Colin's Qube (he needs some encouragement to continue dev )

                    ive been working on a similar projects with the arduino. so far i've completed a complete tach gauge for my bike, everything from the flyback voltage from the coils/tci to the stepper motor that displays the rpm (still on a breadboard though). the rest of the guages should be easy... but i dont really know howto to communicate that to a comp interface, getting it to the comp via usb is no problem but i dont know to do with that info from there (software-unwise).
                    I know nothing about coding, but what from what I've understood by reading about a lot of different DIY-projects, is that Audrino systems can be used to control and read almost all types of low voltage signals. Since Auto Meter is a well known manufacturer of gauges, sensors etc. I would figure they're good quality products, and would fit a lot of cars, as they probably have a lot of different models.

                    Now if someone could pair Auto Meter sensors (or any other good quality "universal" sensors.)
                    To either a Audrino board or something similar to make a so to say universal solution they would have a product that would sell better that fresh cupcakes!

                    +1 on plx devices. they arent cheap but really nice. and their data-logging software looks alot like dash command, maybe it will be easy to pipe info to cetrafuse? sorry i am software noobie
                    I'm really a noob when it comes to car-pcs and car related electronics. I'm sure that it would be possible to get some sort of cooperation here, someone makes the hardware some one makes the software. There should be plenty of people interested in a system like this.
                    I for one can help with interface design as I do a lot of work in Photoshop.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      the trick is finding a "universal" gauge. all gauges have internal circuitry that calibrates them to what ever they are made for. i have been lookin for a cheap, simple gauge housing with no internals for my projects but i cant find anything (not very big market for people making their own gauge) face plates are really cheap and easy to make.

                      i didnt know Auto Meter made sensors. thats kinda kool, but they arent very cost effective ether. pairing those with the atmega would not be that hard at all. and remember the chip (arduino) alone is only about 3 bucks. the board is mainly good for development, you only need one.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        For what it's worth, I also investigated similar ideas a little a while ago, when writing my OBDII Simulator. Note the section near the bottom, "Not just a simulator, but a proxy".

                        Using that, someone could write a generator plugin for my simulator that works with whatever sensors they're using, to present that data to their OBDII program of choice rather than whatever vendor-specific tool came with their sensors.

                        Just a thought,
                        Gary (-;
                        OBDGPSLogger, for logging OBDII and/or GPS data
                        OBDSim, an OBDII/ELM327 software simulator
                        mp3car forums: obdgpslogger, obdsim

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          obd-II for non-obd-ii vehicles is one of the main premises for nobdy.

                          It's pretty much an attempt to shovel data from CAN, obd-II, foo to apps that only want obd-ii data. But a lot of its still theoretical usage since I only have obd-ii/GMLAN to test on .
                          Former author of LinuxICE, nghost, nobdy.
                          Current author of Automotive Message Broker (AMB).
                          Works on Tizen IVI. Does not represent anyone or anything but himself.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            the trick is finding a "universal" gauge. all gauges have internal circuitry that calibrates them to what ever they are made for. i have been lookin for a cheap, simple gauge housing with no internals for my projects but i cant find anything (not very big market for people making their own gauge) face plates are really cheap and easy to make.

                            i didnt know Auto Meter made sensors. thats kinda kool, but they arent very cost effective ether. pairing those with the atmega would not be that hard at all. and remember the chip (arduino) alone is only about 3 bucks. the board is mainly good for development, you only need one.
                            A universal gauge is no problem, the gauge is the car-pc screen.
                            The problems is making a Audrino chip (or something similar) that gets the correct readings from different sensors. As for universal sensors I would expect that Auto Meter makes sensors in different sizes that works in the same way.

                            From my understandings these sensors works in two different ways. Pressure and temperature sensors should give out a set voltage or current corresponding to a set pressure or temperature. Tachometers on the other hand should operate on pulses per second.

                            If Auto Meter isn't willing to share the values to the corresponding temp/pressure/rpm it should be possible to measure these with a multimeter and oscilloscope.

                            For what it's worth, I also investigated similar ideas a little a while ago, when writing my OBDII Simulator. Note the section near the bottom, "Not just a simulator, but a proxy".

                            Using that, someone could write a generator plugin for my simulator that works with whatever sensors they're using, to present that data to their OBDII program of choice rather than whatever vendor-specific tool came with their sensors.

                            Just a thought,
                            Gary (-;
                            Let's hope that someone can make something like what we're discussing here. As for sensors, I think we should just choose someone who makes a wide array of quality sensors and just stick to them and their values. If someone wants "our system" they gotta use those sensors. If it get's really popular we could decide if we want to make more sensor producers available later on.

                            As for your previous work, I really can't say much about it, because I simply don't understand things like that :P

                            obd-II for non-obd-ii vehicles is one of the main premises for nobdy.

                            It's pretty much an attempt to shovel data from CAN, obd-II, foo to apps that only want obd-ii data. But a lot of its still theoretical usage since I only have obd-ii/GMLAN to test on .
                            As stated above, things like this is way waaaay over my head.

                            The system I have thought about works just like normal after marked gauges do. You place a sensor where you want a value read. The only difference is that it's displayed on screen in your centrafuse (or something similar) system. These would be a separate system from your ecu, your ODB II port and your CAN port. That way, the system would work on any car, as long as you have the sensors the system is based on.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              indeed! i would go for this.

                              i have a bunch of atmega chips im learning with. the only thing i dont know about is sending hex over usb to a program. the rest is E-Z

                              like i said im pretty software dumb so i dont know how these (listed above) comp programs would communicate over usb?

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