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OBDII gauges

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  • OBDII gauges

    Hi all, my first post here, I'm Sander from the Netherlands, driving an Alfa Romeo 156 facelift.

    I know it has been discussed a lot, but I can't find an awnser that "suits my needs" USB radio actually..)
    Also have a permanent OBDII (elm327) interface connected.

    It would be nice to show some gauges on the touchscreen but I can't seem to find any working software.
    Palmer Performance DashCommander shows rubbish, RPM of 200, no speed, no turboboost, no engine temperature, no air intake (temp.) etc. etc..

    Specs of my installation:
    Car: Alfa Romeo 156 1.9 JTD 2002 (facelift interior)
    Interfaces: KKL (VAGCOM) cable (reads all, airbag, ESP etc.) and en ELM327 1.4 Ebay interface, works with engine and with adapters with ABS.

    Asus mobo (don't know the type right now)
    E8800 Core 2 duo
    60gb SSD
    4gb DDR2
    Windows 7 x64
    Centrafuse 3.5 ("found on the internet", looking for V4)
    2x infinity speakers 17cm front doors, 2x harman cardon tweeters front doors and infinity 6x9 hood speakers
    Audison x4 amplifiŰr
    Sony xplode active subwoofer
    4.1 sound with Audigy 2 Platinum Ex.
    standard KKL cable connected with MultiECUScan 1.2a ("found" on internet)

    wanted: Dials / gauges for a few parameters like turboboost, intake temperature, and if it's not to slow the standard things like RPM and speedometer.
    What I would like the most is the MPG (only then in liters :P) and an overview of the usage.

    I'm known for my low budget on the Alfa forum, so this "project" must be cheap also

    Who knows a nice working program, it doesn't have to be a CF plugin, any program will do.

    Thank you in advance!

  • #2
    In Europe diesels do not have to comply to EOBD until 2004.
    So it's no wonder that standard OBD2/EOBD scan programs show rubbish, the car doesn't support it.


    • #3
      The ELM327 does connect with MultiECUscan (before fiat ecu scan), isn't that the same protocol?
      Or does the elm interface also support EOBD and the "gauge" programs don't?

      The VAGCOM KKL cable reads all, ABS, EDC, headlights, injection ECU, is there a program that supports the KKL cable?
      I have 0 experience with programming and OBD(II), but I do know that you can get RAW PID data, is there a way to make my own gauges in VB or adapt an opensource program?
      or better yet, is someone willing to help me write a program? :P

      I know a lot of people that would like this, maybe even willing to pay someone.



      • #4
        Does MultiECUscan use the same basic protocol as EOBD for the engine? Yes, ISO 14230 in this case.
        But ISO 14230 has more commands than just the ones used in EOBD/OBD2.
        The Fiat (and Alfa and Lancia) factory protocol simply uses commands not supported by EOBD/OBD2.
        The same answer applies to the ABS. That never uses EOBD/OBD2, but always the factory protocol.

        It's not just the commands that differ, also the numbering of the "pids" is different.
        The value returned also can have different values than the value returned by EOBD/OBD2.
        So, it would take some reverse engineering to find out what the command and values are.

        You say: "The VAGCOM KKL cable reads all". How do you know that (for Fiat/Alfa)?
        It would on VW/Audi cars with Vagcom, but Fiat has different pins for different systems and you would need at least 4 K-lines.


        • #5
          Sorry for my English, bit rubbish when it comes to this :P
          Hope you understand..

          I know because I read my ECU's almost daily with the KKL cable and MES (before FES).
          I only have an Alfa Romeo 156 which I can read.

          This is the cable, only then from ebay for 10 dollars.

          I've soldered extra wires on pins 1, 3, 7 and 9 (k-line) to the PCB so I don┤t need an adapter or switch to choose between airbag, ABS of injection ecu.
          The cable is tucked away and always connected, it works well, never had any problems.

          Soldering is NOT necessary to make the cable work on Alfa instead of VW etc. A standard cable connects just as well to the injection ECU.
          The soldering is only to reconnect the standard pin 7 to say pin 1 for airbag and 9 for headlights etc.
          Hardwire all pins (1, 3, 7 and 9) to connect without adapters.

          How do I "reverse engineer", or do I need other hardware for that?
          Maybe I can find the pID's for my model on the internet.

          In MES I can choose my interface myself:
          - K-line / VAGCOM
          - ELM 327 1.3+ (USB + bluetooth + WiFi)
          - OBDkey 1.40 (USB + bluetooth _ WiFi)
          - OBDlink (usb+bluetooth)
          - OBD direct /Protect

          The OBDII (ELM) interface and TouchScan trial DOES connect with the ECU on the protocol ISO9141-2 10,4 baud, fast init
          Other protocols won't work (tried them manually with TouchScan)


          • #6
            O.K., it's a MODIFIED KKL-interface. That works as you have also found out your self.
            It turns out that EOBD and the factory protocol are two different protocols.
            ISO 9141-2 for EOBD and ISO 14230 for the factory protocol.

            Reverse engineering is a time-consuming process and without extra hardware and software will be next to impossible.
            Some of the software you can buy (for recording the protocol), other software has to be written.
            The order is as follows:
            1. Record communication between scanner (MES) and ecu. Then analyze this protocol - timing, commands, wake-up, etc.
            2. Write a program that simulates the ecu to be reversed engineered.
            3. Connect scanner to this simulation program and work out the conversion formula's.
            4. Write the scanner software.
            Without any programming experience I would not recommend this.


            • #7
              That makes it rather impossible for me them thank you for the explanation.

              If I understand correctly the ecu uses 2 protocols, 1 not fully supported (eobd)

              There are a few programs for fiat/alfa/lancia out there, multiecuscan, alfadiag, ficom and another few.

              Is it possible to, simply use the raw data the kkl cable provides to create some gauges? Like a plugin or standalone program that uses the data from one of the alfa programs?

              Again, programming is needed but perhaps this is a bit simpler?


              • #8
                probeer het eens in het nederlands, dat lukt misschien beter qua uitleg,

                qua frontend , ik heb zelf eerder centrafuse gehad en bleef vele problemen houden ondankt dat het een 'betaald' programma is.

                Ik gebruik nu RideRunner en heb geen gelazer meer met plugins die niet werken etc.

                Neem een kijkje op het roadrunner sub forum om wat meer te weten te komen.

                voor centrafuse is wel het een en ander aan plugins te vinden voor odb2 maar als je de 'gratis' versie gebruikt dan heb je kans dat sommige plugins minder goed werken.

                heb je vragen kan je me ook een prive bericht sturen
                View my worklog here


                • #9
                  Nederlands is altijd makkelijk

                  CF geeft niet echt problemen, maar ik mis meer functionaliteiten, kan geen liedjes verwijderen in de playlist, bluesoleil werkt niet met de telefoon, speech werkt niet goed en volgens mij is de mediaplayer ook niet van zulke goede kwaliteit.
                  vind het programma veel te duur voor de bugs die er nog in zitten.

                  Enige wat ik nu echt mis is navigatie, de digitale tellers heb ik met het bovenstaande verhaal eigenlijk wel opgegeven, voor mij als niet-programmeur gewoon niet te doen.
                  OBDII programma's werken gewoon niet op mijn auto, te oud, dus ook de plugins in CF of riderunner gaan niet werken.
                  Zal zeker eens kijken naar de frontend, misschien dat ik win 8 of medicenter nog kan overwegen, slechter kan het niet worden haha.

                  Heb nu mapfactor navigator 10 ge´nstalleerd, van de gratis versie 11 vind ik de stemmen zeer hinderlijk..
                  Kaarten zijn niet lekker up-to-date en de routekeuze is soms erg onlogisch.

                  Had gehoopt dat de TomTom aan te sluiten was op de pc en je via de Home software de navigatie op het scherm kon weergeven, maar je kan de TT wel bedienen via de pc maar niet navigeren helaas.