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  • Phase Cooling example

    Originally posted by jellymonster View Post
    I feel that there should be a cooling section under MP3Car technical.
    I am struggling at the moment to keep my CPU cool during summer and have resorted to underclocking :S
    Also I would like to see if anyone has attempted water cooling in the car
    Thanks
    if it is that bad i would recommend phase cooling, otherwise refered to as thermal electric cooling

    link here
    http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView...c&form=KEYWORD

    while at 68watts if may be a problem for 12-12 PSUs however, at up to 68 degreesC difference to ambient it could keep your CPU at (45C Summer Temp + Car Boot = 60-100C) 20-40 degrees which is nice, in winter i would change it back though as condensation could be a problem

    as for forum suggestions, the Linux Forum could use some well writen FAQs, i agree with a cooling forum as well as a How To Forum, where people could go for all How To's, instead of trying to find them in the other topic forums

    just for interests sake jelly here is my PC and cooling set up



    120mm and 2x80mm for intake, custom 'GRILL' side panel


    2x60mm High Speed Exhaust Fans

  • #2
    Peltier != phase cooling. Thermoelectric coolers are not very efficient, on the order of 10-15%, however phase change (commonly known as refrigeration) is one of the best known ways to cool a computer. Example link: http://www.crazypc.com/products/phasechange.html
    "stop with the REINSTALLS, what do you think we got some lame-o installer!!!" - mitchjs
    RevFE
    My Shop

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    • #3
      ugh..i wasted my money on those thermoelectric crapola's...the use to much power for what they cool...its not worth it. fan cooling or water cooling..if you are daring ...is still the best way..especially for carpc's
      CarPc
      Project "Driver"

      Planning [99.9%]

      Parts Collected [98.5%]

      Installation & Fabrication [98%]

      Total Completion Level [96.9 %]

      http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/work...ct-driver.html

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      • #4
        Ah yeah that's unfortunate.

        Don't get me wrong, I don't suggest phase change cooling for a car, there's almost no reason for it except in extreme situations. Fan cooling, or even water cooling will be plenty. The key is airflow, if you are overheating chances are you don't have enough airflow.
        "stop with the REINSTALLS, what do you think we got some lame-o installer!!!" - mitchjs
        RevFE
        My Shop

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        • #5
          Phase change is actually not the same as a TEC, or Peltier.
          Thermoelectric coolers CAN do a great job but they actually increase the heat load of the SYSTEM. The chip being cooled will be cooler, but the exhaust air will be considerably warmer. A LOT warmer.

          Phase Change is the process of compressing a gas to a liquid state and then suddenly releasing it to expand- the sudden expansion (the Phase Change) provides cooling. This is how air conditioners and refrigerators work.
          In computing, Phase Change is most commonly put into use as Direct Die Phase Change:
          the chamber where the expansion (and cooling) occurs is mounted on the cpu, just like a heat sink. ALL of the refrigerant power is put to use to cool JUST the cpu.
          This is VERY effective and can easily result in subzero temperatures under full load.

          But in a car computer.... yeah, not so effective. A compressor will either rob engine power (belt driven like car ac) or electric load on the battery- and it will generate a LOT of heat.

          Air cooling is definitely the simplest and can USUALLY be done successfully with planning and care, and maybe a few low noise fans.

          Water cooling is a bit more complex, but if you are struggling with air cooling, and trying to figure out how to duct intake and exhaust air to keep the system stable, it may not be much more complex.
          *Modern pumps add little heat to the system and run on 12v (computer psu.)
          *1/2" Inside Diameter tubing is most common in High Performance water cooling, but 3/8" or even 1/4" ID can do a decent job in a system that is not highly overclocked.
          And small tubing is easy to route.

          A few points though:
          Water cooling still depends on Ambient Air to cool the radiator down- it just makes it easy to relocate WHERE you send that warmth.
          Water cooling will NOT cool everything in a system like Air Cooling does: only the chips with water blocks will be cooled. (Other components will benefit from the LACK of all that extra heat nearby.)
          Some airflow is still required to cool motherboard components such as chipsets, voltage regulators and memory.

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          • #6
            just a thought but one upside to using a pelt could be that they're not very sensitive about voltage fluctuations. you could connect it directly to switched power and engine cranks, transient spikes, etc won't kill it.

            still probably not worth it considering if you can't air cool a stock a processor cooling the pelts hot side is definately not going to happen.

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            • #7
              are you talking about those little plates that are in coolers and such,they have heat sinks with those built in them. hey jelly how do you under clock any way id like to know cause that could save me heat on my pc its a quad core so its realy powerfull suposidly. beast custom case pyr0. has anyone ever put a xbox 360 or ps3 in a car pc setup before it`d be nice to know.
              1992 thunderbird .... white with black interior gaming PC 500 watts of power per channel and 1000 watts to the sub unknown psu and a V6 supercharged that came stock. ........... I need help

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              • #8
                You should all be using laptop motherboards, if intel core 2 series try the P series which have only 25w thermal design power.

                Throttlestop is a great program I use for overclocking my quad above 3.5 but you can also use it to downclock, enable/disable core 2 power saving features which downclock 1/2 or SLFM on some CPUs which will get a 2.4 all the way down to 700mhz. That will stay cool no kidding.

                You can also undervolt which will have some serious results with heat. A program called RMclock is better for creating profiles and doing a lot of these things.

                All cooling systems need ventilation, preferably very good ventilation. Air systems I would highly recommend designing a fan shroud to force intaking only cool air and directing the hot air both from and to the outside of the enclosure.

                Even if you have vents, if your fan is not directed at these vents your enclosure will somewhat be filling up with hot air.

                I am aware that a lot of coolers dont work in a way that this would be possible. well, they should. The ones that dont are crappy coolers.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by niffcreature View Post
                  You should all be using laptop motherboards, if intel core 2 series try the P series which have only 25w thermal design power.
                  careful with that all. Not everyone uses there computer for the same reasons, some people need certain features, more or less power, limited space or a lot of space, and so on. Some people even have many displays which need to be ran like independent computers on one computer which obviously this would require more graphics cards or maybe even just one graphics card with eye infinity. Also some people only have a certain amount of money to spend or want to add a sound card or graphics card and don't like usb sound cards... Saying "all" is "most" of the time dangerous :/. Look at HiJackZX1 van in the worklog and tell me he should be using a laptop motherboard...
                  2002 Honda Civic Ex --Worklog

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by cla1067 View Post
                    careful with that all. Not everyone uses there computer for the same reasons, some people need certain features, more or less power, limited space or a lot of space, and so on. Some people even have many displays which need to be ran like independent computers on one computer which obviously this would require more graphics cards or maybe even just one graphics card with eye infinity. Also some people only have a certain amount of money to spend or want to add a sound card or graphics card and don't like usb sound cards... Saying "all" is "most" of the time dangerous :/. Look at HiJackZX1 van in the worklog and tell me he should be using a laptop motherboard...
                    Ok, I'll be careful. It does make sense.

                    But I'll also say that I could build a superior setup to the one you linked with laptop motherboards.

                    They do have more than USB you know
                    And there are ways to use desktop graphics cards with laptops.

                    Laptop parts can also often be found cheaper than any other parts, because people simply do not have any idea what they are, or what they are compatible with, and in the end have no idea what they're worth.

                    Yea, non laptop parts are much much easier to work with. For car setups, it seems only natural to me that the preferred parts would be the type initially designed for a very high level of integration.
                    But I know a lot about laptops which does not come easily, even some incredibly skilled desktop builders will feel lost in some areas with laptops.

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                    • #11
                      careful with that all. Not everyone uses there computer for the same reasons, some people need certain features, more or less power, limited space or a lot of space, and so on. Some people even have many displays which need to be ran like independent computers on one computer which obviously this would require more graphics cards or maybe even just one graphics card with eye infinity.
                      There are various industrial motherboards, in mini-itx, 5.25" and 3.5" form-factors supporting mobile chipsets and cpus - I have been advocating for a long time to use these in carputer environment.

                      They are significantly more expensive, and signficantly more stable in these harsh environments.

                      Look at Commell/Advantech/Kontron/BCM and many others for examples. Mine works perfect everytime. Never missed a beat, and I can drive multiple displays, most will even have LVDS ports onboard to directly interface to openframe LCDs, without separate controllers....

                      So, it's a brilliant idea - again, for some like Hijack, these won't work.....due to the complexity of his setup.....but for 99% they would.
                      F6 Tornado Project Log ; HP Blackbird Watercooled Server

                      Beta Tester for Centrafuse and 3dConnexion (No business affiliation with either)

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