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  • Fan placement on case and screens!

    Im not sure if I am posting in the right area. Kinda has to do with fabrication, if not, moderator move me to were I should be.

    First off, have to say that most of you guys are awsome with the fabrication you do, i wish i had those same skills. I have to have people do everything for me, when it comes to that.

    Anyways, I have a PC case, a Morex 2766, which supports 2 PCI devices, via a dual riser.... Pictures at bottom of page. I basically took everything out of the case that had to do with the HD, I also ripped out the PCI slots. I did this to fit the OPUS 320 in that area. I am now confused at how I should cool the case. On one side there is a pre installed fan that blows air into the case. I tried adding some directly on the other side, but they will not fit. I decided I am going to cut a hole in the case cover and put a large fan over the area of the OPUS 320. What I want to know is should I have the fan blowing air into the case, or drawing air out? If drawing air in with the big fan, should I reverse the preinstalled fan to draw air out, and if draw out with the big fan, should I have the pre installed fan draw air in.

    I have 3 Lilliput screens. Two are in sun visors, and 1 will be installed into the dash. I noticed that all 3 screens seem to get fairly warm, due to the CCFL lighting. How should I go about cooling these screens. All three screens will be installed 100% completed, in their original casing. Is there a specific place on the screen i can install a cooling fan, and should it draw air in or out. I installed the screens into the sunvisors and the Lillis' got red hot. So on one visor I cut a hole near the top vent of the lilli and a bottom vent on the lilli and had a fan at each vent blow air in.... It kept most of the screen cool, but at the bottom it was still red hot.... what can I do to properly cool these screens.

    How my case looked when i bought it:




    Here is how my case looks, I would like to place a large fan right over the OPUS, but which way should the air blow, in or out?


    Here is the screens, should I maybe cut out the backs of the sun visors and drop the screen lower so the back of the Lilli is open to the air and the top of the Lilli is flush with the sun visor casing? Also how should I cool the Lilli for the dash?



    I would appreciate any help, I really want to insure proper cooling. i dont want to overheat anything.
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  • #2
    For the case... if you are adding a fan, I would have the new fan blow into the case, and the existing fan blow out. Airflow is called that for a reason.. you need to create a "flow" that pulls or pushes out the hot air. Try it both ways as well, see which one works better.

    Come to think of it, it will also depend on where you are mounting it in the car, and if the car has items that partially blow the airflow from the fans.

    For the lcd... I have seen several instances where people have removed the speaker on the back and placed a fan in that area. Fan mounted to the outside, blowing air in though the vent holes that exist where the speaker was. Too lazy and tired to search for an example now, but there is some somewhere on this board =)

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    • #3
      Originally posted by NotYou View Post
      For the case... if you are adding a fan, I would have the new fan blow into the case, and the existing fan blow out. Airflow is called that for a reason.. you need to create a "flow" that pulls or pushes out the hot air. Try it both ways as well, see which one works better.

      Come to think of it, it will also depend on where you are mounting it in the car, and if the car has items that partially blow the airflow from the fans.
      Well I decided to have it blow air in, and the pre installed fan blow out, I am also adding one at the back that will blow air out. I think this will be more then enough, especially since the processor and the graphics card have their own fans. Im just worried about the PSU being to hot.

      For the lcd... I have seen several instances where people have removed the speaker on the back and placed a fan in that area. Fan mounted to the outside, blowing air in though the vent holes that exist where the speaker was. Too lazy and tired to search for an example now, but there is some somewhere on this board =)
      So you mean the fans are blowing air out of the screens, instead of blowing in? If you can, find me the links, i would appreciate it, im going to try to find them also..... Thanx, I'll post my mods on here.
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      • #4
        Pix showing the system board and processor in place would help. Where's the processor fan relative to the Opus? Is the processor fan blowing directly out of the case?

        You want your fans pulling air off the hottest component(s) and exhausting it out of the case. If the Opus is the hottest part, then blowing air in on it means you're heating everything else in the case up. Put the exhaust fan near the Opus if it's the hottest component, or use two exhaust fans if you have two hot components, making sure you have plenty of air inlets.

        My PC uses a 25W processor, so heat is a minor issue with that, but it also has an M2-ATX running in the case. The only fan I run is the one on top of the processor, blowing directly out of the case. It draws outside air across the M2-ATX, and the exhaust air from the system is barely warm. You can see the layout of the case in my worklog; it's post #2.

        I just realized that I don't have a picture of the internal layout of my case, just the empty case. I'll see if I can get a picture added today so what I'm saying is clearer.

        -----

        Edit: Okay, that picture is up. It's in post #69 of the worklog.
        .
        If just enough is really good, then too much ought to be perfect.

        2006 Scion xB with in-dash Atom & Lilliput 889GL -- Worklog at http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/work...res-links.html
        .

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        • #5
          Originally posted by HiJackZX1 View Post
          If you can, find me the links, i would appreciate it, im going to try to find them also..... Thanx, I'll post my mods on here.
          Looks like you already found the link... but for others reference, its http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/lcd-...ml#post1199085 Not sure how successful it was, but I would imagine it would help in your situation where you have the vents for the lcd enclosed with the visor.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by rdholtz View Post
            Pix showing the system board and processor in place would help. Where's the processor fan relative to the Opus? Is the processor fan blowing directly out of the case?

            You want your fans pulling air off the hottest component(s) and exhausting it out of the case. If the Opus is the hottest part, then pulling air in to it means you're heating everything else in the case up. Put the exhaust fan near the Opus if it's the hottest component, or use two exhaust fans if you have two hot components, making sure you have plenty of air inlets.
            Thanks for explaining it for to the OP for me.. I should know better to post when I'm tired.

            The reason I recommended the fan blow down on the OPUS is that this isn't going to be the hottest item in the case. The processor will be, to which I assumed would be in the space below the opus (as oriented from the picture). This will bring the air into the case, then the side fan (closest to the processer) will be blowing the hot air out.

            If my assumption is incorrect about the placement of the motherboard, please do adjust accordingly as rdholtz indicated.

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            • #7
              Here are some pictures of the case with MoBo installed, but it seems I can not mount a fan at the top. My system is mounted, or going to be mounted on the back seat. The bottom of the MoBo will be facing the rear passengers, so its impossible to mount a fan over the OPUS or anything for that matter. The case is thin and long, so now I am playing with the idea of mounting 3 fans on the side with preinstalled fan and have all blowing air in, then on the OPUS side have 4 fans blowing the air out. This should be perfect, because what I understand is that the RAM gets very warm on this board, and I have 2 Gigs of it. First place the fans will hit is the RAM. It will then travel around the RAM and onto the processor which will take some of the air and blow it down on the processor. I also have a fan blowing down onto the GPU chip. It was getting very warm having a passive cooler. So basically the air will travel through the case, then cool the OPUS and exit the air out. From other articles that I have read, cool air is always blown in from the front, over the MoBo and then then the fan on the PSU blows it out of the case. Here are pictures so you guys can give me feed back and tell me if my idea is sound.

              From left to right: OPUS 320, MoBo with one fan for processor and one for GPU, DVD ROM, under DVD ROM is HDD.


              Another pic from diffrent angle.


              Here is the case with cover on it from the OPUS side. I was thinking of adding more holes and adding for small fans pulling air out.


              Here is from the other side. There is already one preinstalled fan, so I was thinking of adding 3 more to balance it out.


              From the back of the case. The large hole will of course be sealed.
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              • #8
                Holy bejesus... 8 case fans, plus two on the motherboard? I think you might be going a little overboard there. =)

                You have two fans on the motherboard already -- one blowing down on the CPU and one blowing down on the GPU. That's fine, as those both attached to the heatsinks on those items and cooling them. Not sure you REALLY need the one on the GPU -- it would depend on heavy you are using 3D-type effects. Regular 2D screens should never get a current GPU hot.

                You have a pre-installed fan blowing air into the case directly by the hard drive. Perfect, keep it that way.

                If you want to add another fan, I would put it on the side opposite side of the pre-installed fan and towards the back of the case, or in the large hole you have there in the back. That fan would then be blowing out.

                Once you have the top of the case on, and the large hole either sealed up or sealed around a new fan (if your adding it there), you should be fine. You'll have a good path of airflow in the case. When you go to mount it in the car, be sure to have at least 1" of clearance infront of any vents/fans on the case.. more if possible.


                On a side note -- it seams you just put together the case this way. Have you benchmarked it and have proof that it gets hot, or are you trying to nip any heat issues in the bud? If the latter, configure it like I suggested, then give it a shot. If you still have heat issues after that, then come back to the drawing board.

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                • #9
                  I guess im just scared of it over heating.... I did run the PC with the top off..... didnt notice any heat from the PSU, but the GPU was very very warm. I do not intend to run 3D per say, but I will use heavy visualzations with the VGA pushing to one screen and the DVI to 3 others, so I know it will get hotter. Also as a note, I have not connected all the USB devices which will most likely make the PSU run alittle hotter.

                  Now on the case it has the vents on both sides, do I leave those alone?

                  This is how the case came, except the PSU was supposed to go were the HDD was and the HDD were the PSU is now. I switched them because I think the space was made for a 3.5 HDD and I am of course using a 2.5. Plus the PSU would never have fit.... My M2-ATX fit but the OPUS is 3 times bigger. OK, i'll scale down the amount.... maybe put two on the oposite side, one in the gap on the back and one toward the right hand side of it.
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                  • #10
                    I pretty much agree with NotYou -- eight fans is overkill. But I'd be surprised if your CPU and GPU fans are blowing down. My experience is that these blow up, drawing ambient air through the fins and blowing it away from the processors. I think the single existing case fan should be blowing out, and an added fan at the OPUS end -- also blowing out -- might be enough. If the fans are low velocity (quiet) fans, then you might need one or even two more. There are good modern fans with specialized fins that blow a lot of air quietly.

                    The important consideration here is that you have a clear route for external air to enter the vent holes, cross the hotspots, and exit through the fans. It's like crowd control: you want to avoid congestion, and you want to avoid dead spots, too, because air is lazy; if it doesn't have to move, it won't.

                    If the fans have to fight each other, you simply get added noise, and you get more heat from the power supply because it has to provide energy to those extra fans. The more fans you have, the more backseat noise you'll generate, and that will reduce the quality of the passengers' experience.

                    Another thought: you might want to consider a baffle arrangement to guide the air the way you want it to flow. A baffle can be a simple piece of plastic sheet -- cut from a large plastic container (like a Tide bottle). Bend it so it has a flange to attach with, and rivet or bolt it in place on the cover. Trim the bottom so it doesn't contact any parts when installed. For instance, you might baffle across the middle of the OPUS, so the fan installed on that end of the case draws air through the holes, pulls it across one end of the OPUS, around the baffle, then across the other end of the OPUS, and blows it out.

                    Consider that you want a little air flowing over the hard drive, too. HDs generate a small amount of heat, and they don't like to bake.

                    If you have a single video task running, I don't think you'll have an issue. If you run your computer on one screen and a movie on the others, you'll likely develop more heat because you have two video tasks going. But you shouldn't generate additional heat in the case by splitting that movie video output to three screens instead of one.

                    I agree again that bench testing is an excellent way to find out if you even have a problem to solve. Cap that rear hole, plug in your monitors, and put this through the uses that you have planned. See if you get as much heat as you think you will.
                    .
                    If just enough is really good, then too much ought to be perfect.

                    2006 Scion xB with in-dash Atom & Lilliput 889GL -- Worklog at http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/work...res-links.html
                    .

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                    • #11
                      Thanx RD......... I started doing alot of research and decided to go with how towers use thier fans.... They blow air from the front to rear. So the pre installed fan will continue to blow in, over the HDD, into the MoBo area. Yes for some reason the fans to blow down on the processor, and the other fan installed on the GPU was originally a processor fan also, and it blows down. I plugged the hole and on part of the opening I placed another fan that pulls air out, this should create a circle type air flow. Once I get my stupid IDE to SATA conveter, I can connect my HDD and start my install and testing the air flow.

                      When it came to the screens, I opened up the screens, removed the speaker and placed a fan blowing the air out. I figured this was bad, because there is a large circuit board blocking the fan from the screen itself, but when I turned it on I saw that the screen remained cool and that air was being sucked in with alot of force. So far the screen has been running 1 hour and 30 minutes with no change in heat.
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                      • #12
                        So it looks like one or two fans down on the outlet end should do you well. When you add fans there, look for the quiet ones -- here's a link to an example, and here's another. There are plenty of others in different sizes out there.
                        .
                        If just enough is really good, then too much ought to be perfect.

                        2006 Scion xB with in-dash Atom & Lilliput 889GL -- Worklog at http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/work...res-links.html
                        .

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by rdholtz View Post
                          But I'd be surprised if your CPU and GPU fans are blowing down. My experience is that these blow up, drawing ambient air through the fins and blowing it away from the processors.
                          99% of heatsink fans blow down. Trust me on this.

                          Adding a single fan of the same size to create airflow through the case should be all you need. You might consider going to a larger fan, rather than more fans. If it were my system, I'd make sure they are ball bearing fans too. Less noise and they will last longer.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Lovecraft View Post
                            99% of heatsink fans blow down. Trust me on this.
                            I stand corrected on the heat sink fans. Mine blows up, but I checked several others, and all but one blow down. A call to my favorite computer store confirmed what you say. Mine is a standard AMD fan, preinstalled on the heatsink. I also have its twin, and that's installed the same way. Interesting . . .

                            Originally posted by Lovecraft View Post
                            You might consider going to a larger fan, rather than more fans. If it were my system, I'd make sure they are ball bearing fans too. Less noise and they will last longer.
                            It looks like the case is pretty short, so there may only be room for two small fans, rather than one bigger one. I sure do agree with the ball bearing recommendation.
                            .
                            If just enough is really good, then too much ought to be perfect.

                            2006 Scion xB with in-dash Atom & Lilliput 889GL -- Worklog at http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/work...res-links.html
                            .

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                            • #15
                              I could be wrong about which way they blow, but i would not be surprised if they blow down. IEI seems to do things diffrently with their MoBos'. Say for example, the USB headers arent like other boards where its 5v, data p, data n, and ground on both sides. Instead the pin headers go the opposite way on USB 2. So I had to take apart the connector and reverse it to work.
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