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  • Fast Boot: USB devices impact on BIOS post times

    Hi,

    Not sure how general the following findings are, but I'll post them anyway.

    If you're not much into reading, my conclusion is that BIOS times depend much more on how they recognize and interact with the devices you plug into your computer. My DG45FC went from 10.3 sec to 21.1 sec depending on what was plugged.

    Basically, Bios post times can be improved by tweaking a lot of obscure settings, but you won't get much more than a second out of it, specially if it's tweaked somewhat already (eg. if you're not using the internal com port, disable it, etc.).

    Now the number and the type of USB devices account for much more than any single bios setting. At least that's what I found out by plugging each of my devices one by one. Some USB devices are hideous as far as boot times are concerned, specially HID devices (keyboards, mouses, etc.). Now I didn't test USB dongles, so this is far from complete. USB Hubs (I use only one, powered one) can also be very dangerous from my previous experience, but I didn't test those either.

    Here we go:

    CASE 1: MB and a wireless logitech mouse and the touchscreen plugged. Nothing else (I did this 3 times, with similar results +-2s):

    A) 9.6
    B) 20.7
    C) 3.5s
    T=33.8s

    Another: A) 9.1;B)21.7;C)3.9;T=34.7; in all 3, BIOS times under 10sec.

    In what follows, I adopt the convention below:

    A = Bios boot time; from flip of the switch to the beep
    B = Windows 7 32bits boot time from the beep up to when the desktop is painted
    C = Windows 7 is "ready" meaning and no "busy" cursor is seen, all the taskbar and desktop icons are loaded, etc.
    T = Total time A+B+C.

    CASE 2: Add a wired USB MS Desktop keyboard

    A) 10.3
    B) 22.5
    c) 4
    t) 36.8

    Case 3: add the JoyCon (steeering wheel HID interface), wired USB

    A) 15.2
    B) 22.3
    C) 3.5
    T) 41.2

    Wow. Tested again, BIOS times 15.0-15.3 range. 5 seconds more! Unpluged, restarted, shut off, flip the switch, timed it again, back to 10.2 sec. range. But I need this stuff, so lets go on.

    CASE 4: Add Webcam (Logitech QuickCam 9000)
    A) 17.4
    B) 21.1
    C) 4.5
    T=43.1

    This added 2.2 sec. BUT this is where my only USB hub is (the webcam consumes lots of power, and it's a long way from the computer to the dash so it's powered). It's powered by one of the mp3car store 5v PSUs. So not sure if this is due to the Camera, and how far it's due to the 4 port Kingston usb hub.

    Not happy. Again, I need that cam. So it stays. Maybe another hub? I had another one, but it didn't behave well on hibernation. We'd need a thread listing good hubs...

    CASE 5: Add Garmin GPS

    A) 17.7
    B) 20.9
    C) 3.7
    T=42.5

    Surprise, that was fast! Only added 3/10ths. Tested again, same results.

    CASE 6: Add Wireless G USB dongle (Belkin, very bad stuff).

    A) 17.9
    B) 21.6
    C) 3.1
    T=42.7

    CASE 7: Another HID device, Wireless USB keyboard (Logitech DiNovo)

    A) 20.5 (WTF?!)
    B) 19.2
    C) 3.2
    T=43.1

    Again, another keyboard, 2.6 seconds added. 2.6 seconds...Consistently. What's up with Intel bios and HID devices?

    CASE 8) Motorola wired USB 3G modem (Motorola V3xx dedicated to the car)

    A) 20.5
    B) 19.2
    C) 4.0
    T=43.7

    CASE 9) Bluetooth dongle

    A) 20.7
    B) 23.7
    C) 2.6
    t= 47.2

    Odd numbers for the win7 time in this case. Tested it again:

    A) 20.5
    B) 21.0
    C) 3.3
    t= 44.8

    CASE 10) Now I DISconnected the DiNovo keyboard again (Not sure I use it that much, then again I'm going to hibernate, so just to see what happens)

    A) 18.3
    B) 21.1
    C) 3.6
    T=43.0

    Now it's 2.2 seconds difference. Tested again, got 18.5 BIOS boot time. 2 seconds. Down to a keyboard...

    So that's it. Hope this helps somewhat. It would be interesting if that's an Intel thing, or other bios have trouble with some devices.

    What do you guys think?

    Cheers,

    RH.
    Worklogs: 08 Sequoia Platinum Carputer (In Progress!)
    Skin: MetroSex on the Beach preview

    07 Infiniti Fx35 (done!) & 06 Infiniti M35 (gone...)

  • #2
    Yup, I find that some USB devices definately increase the time for the BIOS to POST. But I dont think there is much you can do about it other than to tweak some BIOS settings. Or even worse, soemtimes they make resuming from hibernation unstable.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by RipplingHurst View Post
      CASE 4: Add Webcam (Logitech QuickCam 9000)
      A) 17.4
      B) 21.1
      C) 4.5
      T=43.1

      ...

      CASE 5: Add Garmin GPS

      A) 17.7
      B) 20.9
      C) 3.7
      T=42.5
      So the Garmin GPS sped up the overall boot time!? I'm going to look into buying one of those...
      '93 Toyota Celica - First Car PC install
      Current System Specs:
      ZOTAC GF8200-C-E AM2+ GF8200
      AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+
      1 GB DDR2 667
      LITE-ON DL-8ATS Slot-Load
      750 GB Seagate SATA HDD
      250W PSU
      19" Hyundai Monitor

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by cjrokke View Post
        So the Garmin GPS sped up the overall boot time!? I'm going to look into buying one of those...
        It increased bios boot times though. One can never know what optimizations windows are doing in the background, completely unrelated to Garmin drivers.
        Worklogs: 08 Sequoia Platinum Carputer (In Progress!)
        Skin: MetroSex on the Beach preview

        07 Infiniti Fx35 (done!) & 06 Infiniti M35 (gone...)

        Comment


        • #5
          Here is my experience with this board, very basic setup, SSD, GPS, Touchscreen, USB sound card, and these are my settings:

          http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/oper...imization.html

          Comment


          • #6
            Sometimes it matters which port you plug a device into as well! I have a device, when used on a certain port, causes the POST USB detection to hang for 5 or 6 extra seconds...

            Comment


            • #7
              I have this board and i agree the bios boot times are hideous. Mine has an extra lag that i can't seem to get rid of b/c i dont keep a keyboard plugged. When it boots it goes to the no keyboard screen and hangs there a bit... so annoying. It doesn't require to hit a key to continue but it hangs there for a while and there is no setting that I have found in the BIOS to eliminate this. Once up and running this board is great, but booting it sucks.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by WuNgUn View Post
                Sometimes it matters which port you plug a device into as well! I have a device, when used on a certain port, causes the POST USB detection to hang for 5 or 6 extra seconds...
                Interesting, I'm going do some testing with my worst offenders, the HID devices.

                Originally posted by bratnetwork View Post
                I have this board and i agree the bios boot times are hideous. Mine has an extra lag that i can't seem to get rid of b/c i dont keep a keyboard plugged. When it boots it goes to the no keyboard screen and hangs there a bit... so annoying. It doesn't require to hit a key to continue but it hangs there for a while and there is no setting that I have found in the BIOS to eliminate this. Once up and running this board is great, but booting it sucks.

                Have you tried bios 117 from Sept 2009?

                Fixed issue with POST code 51 when using certain wireless
                keyboard.
                Originally posted by Punky View Post
                Here is my experience with this board, very basic setup, SSD, GPS, Touchscreen, USB sound card, and these are my settings:

                http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/oper...imization.html
                I did all that already, minus the LAN, because I plug into my wired network when I'm updating it/tinkering with it (like every weekend).
                Worklogs: 08 Sequoia Platinum Carputer (In Progress!)
                Skin: MetroSex on the Beach preview

                07 Infiniti Fx35 (done!) & 06 Infiniti M35 (gone...)

                Comment


                • #9
                  your HD?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    My HD is a Kingston SSD 64 GB + 500GB Samsung 2.5" drive.
                    Worklogs: 08 Sequoia Platinum Carputer (In Progress!)
                    Skin: MetroSex on the Beach preview

                    07 Infiniti Fx35 (done!) & 06 Infiniti M35 (gone...)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Maybe you should add USB devices after 10-30 secs, for example,
                      give power to the USB hub 10s after computer boot.
                      First, try to do this manually, and if it works,
                      you can get some timing electrics for it.

                      More: I'm planning do this on-demand, for example, with an RS232 or USB relay controller,
                      and a program for it, integrated on the frontend/window manager. For example:
                      -it gives power to the touchscreen after OS fully booted
                      -when you start the GPS in the frontend, it gives power to the GPS device
                      -when you start the music player, it gives power to the USB DAC/sound card
                      etc, etc...
                      You can also control other devices with it, like mirrors, windows, etc...

                      For example:
                      http://microcontrollershop.com/produ...roducts_id=642
                      Check my worklog:
                      Corsa + Atom + Gentoo Linux + 9" capacitive touchscreen

                      Lord of the boards: DFI CP100-NRM

                      "Or you can try Ubuntu, but than don't tell everyone you are using linux,
                      because it's just a secret unreleased prebeta of Windows 3829" :P

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        FusionBrain can do all that and more, and you'll support fellow board members by buying it

                        Delayed power to USB hub is one way to do it. Just make sure the hub-ports is inactive/disabeled when the hub is offline. Otherwise it will try to power the devices with the power coming on the line; PC - > USB-Hub.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I've not tested this to the extent of you lot and I don't have the same board.

                          My board is a zotac 9300-ITX which is a completely different kettle of fish.

                          However I believe if you change your BIOS to 'PnP OS: Yes' (not exact wording as it changes from board to board). I think this will stop your bios issues as it won't bother addressing any PnP devices, it will leave it for the OS to deal with.

                          This SHOULD solve your problems, I know this and a few other select settings in my XBMC HTPC at home greatly improved boot times where it used to hang for long periods due to PnP devices.

                          Let us know if you have success with this.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            U have all the right components, except your motherboard's bios sucks.
                            Believe me i've dealt with this board, and the bios is complete garbage. However, this board does support S3 hibernation, this will definitely solve all of your problem. After all these years of looking for the best boot time. I finally gave up and use s3 hibernation and i'm glad i did. There's more and more members trying this, so you should give it a try as well.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Powering a hub after windows starts is fine, but make sure it is still powered when windos resume from hibernation/STR.
                              Now Galileo is real. Muhahahahaha :p

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