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Strange USB Issues - USB Doesnt "Stay Alive" In Car

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  • Strange USB Issues - USB Doesnt "Stay Alive" In Car

    Recently bought and installed a complete carputer from MoCoSo running on a D945GCLF2 Intel motherboard. Excellent company and products for the record

    My issue is that when I bring the computer in the house and power it using a DC Regulator, all the USB ports and USB peripherals plugged in work JUST FINE with no problems at all... However when I put the computer in the car, everything shows up but then around 10 minutes later they show up as "Unplugged" when they are not.

    For instance I have a Delorme Earthmate USB GPS, and in the car and at boot, the computer see's the GPS receiver, gets signal, works in the GPS software for about ten minutes, then for no reason what so ever, the Delorme driver says that there is no GPS receiver plugged in?

    When I use a standard flash drive, and I transfer large files, it will start the transfer, then lose the drive in Windows before the transfer is complete? (I've tried a few different flash drives, they all do the same thing. They work perfect in the house on my workbench)

    I've tried a USB CD Drive that I loaded Windows onto the computer with in the house, doesnt recognize the drive in the car.

    I have no clue why this is happening... I've check the voltage coming out of the M2-ATX and its steady at 4.92 volts. So this >should< be just fine? There is a good solid ground and 12v+ going to the M2-ATX? So where can I go from here? What would be the next step?

    Thanks in Advance for any help...
    Carputer Progress
    [||||||||||] 100%
    Finally Installed!!
    Everything is in the car and working.
    I painted the cilpboard mount and it looks good.
    Shutdown/Startup is working excellent!
    View My Progress Here

  • #2
    Are you watching the 5VUSB when it happens or or checked it once? It sounds like it's dropping. IOW, the M2 can't supply enough power.

    Comment


    • #3
      I've checked it a few times, but not actually monitor the 5v line.

      How can the M2-ATX be able to power the USB Devices when connected to the DC Regulator but not when installed in the car?
      Carputer Progress
      [||||||||||] 100%
      Finally Installed!!
      Everything is in the car and working.
      I painted the cilpboard mount and it looks good.
      Shutdown/Startup is working excellent!
      View My Progress Here

      Comment


      • #4
        How hot is it in the computer? Are you sure there are no extra USB devices in the car that aren't there in the house? Do any of the USB devices use external power supplies? Do you have any USB hubs connected?
        My Nearly Complete Car:
        http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/show...ed-car-pc.html

        Micro Control Center... Control Your Car Across the Internet
        http://www.mp3car.com/fusion-brain/1...-internet.html

        Website: (It's a work in progress, really. All my projects have taken me from ever really developing it.)
        http://paulfurtado.com/

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        • #5
          1) Not hot at all since the weather has been REALLY nice lately.
          2) The USB devices are the exact same.
          3) No USB devices I have plugged in for now have any external power supplies.
          4) I do have one 4-port USB Hub with two devices connected to it. Touchscreen & GPS
          Carputer Progress
          [||||||||||] 100%
          Finally Installed!!
          Everything is in the car and working.
          I painted the cilpboard mount and it looks good.
          Shutdown/Startup is working excellent!
          View My Progress Here

          Comment


          • #6
            When you tested inside the house, did you use the exact same USB cables you're using in the car? Did you use the same screen in the house?
            My Nearly Complete Car:
            http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/show...ed-car-pc.html

            Micro Control Center... Control Your Car Across the Internet
            http://www.mp3car.com/fusion-brain/1...-internet.html

            Website: (It's a work in progress, really. All my projects have taken me from ever really developing it.)
            http://paulfurtado.com/

            Comment


            • #7
              Yes.
              Carputer Progress
              [||||||||||] 100%
              Finally Installed!!
              Everything is in the car and working.
              I painted the cilpboard mount and it looks good.
              Shutdown/Startup is working excellent!
              View My Progress Here

              Comment


              • #8
                i wonder if you measure the 5v line when you start the computer up, and then measure it 10-15 min later to see if they match-- if the m2 is doing its job, there shouldn't much fluctuation at all(maybe 0.1volt?)
                My OLD 2001 Mitsubishi Eclipse GT:
                "The Project That Never Ended, until it did"


                next project? subaru brz
                carpc undecided

                Comment


                • #9
                  Other possible scenarios:

                  Short USB cables in the house, long cables in the car.
                  Connecting CD drive to PC in house, connecting to hub in the car.
                  Connecting to amplifier in the car but not in the house.

                  Find the difference. There has to be one.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hub's could be overloaded

                    Go into Control Panel. I am presuming you are using Windows as your OS.

                    Select System, then Device Manager. Find "Universal Serial Bus controllers" and click on the plus to open it.

                    You are looking for "USB Root Hub", you will have as many as you have hubs. Click on the first one, the click the Power tab. It will tell you whether the hub is self powered or powered. And the Total amount of power available: 500 mA per port. So a four port hub "should" be able to sink 2000 mA, or 2A. Thats 2A times the number of four port hubs available.

                    You will also see what devices are attached and their Power Requirements. Say a Bluetooth adapter around 50 mA. Another hub connected to it 400 mA. USB hard drive 500 mA.

                    My guess is that the ones drawing 500 mA can probably draw a lot more. I have a hauppauge USB TV stick. It's documentation suggests that it be on a hub by itself if the hub is unpowered. Experience shows me it can coexist on a powered hub with a Bluetooth adapter.

                    I also have a Seagate FreeAgent USB drive that derives all of it's power from the hub and can be the only thing living on it powered or otherwise.

                    What is happening is that certain devices will draw more current than their ratings show, hard drives in particular. And will monopolize the entire hub.

                    You will have to try different combinations to see what is actually stable. You may also want to power all of the hubs through a voltage regulator.

                    Good Luck

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by mnwcsult View Post
                      Go into Control Panel. I am presuming you are using Windows as your OS.

                      Select System, then Device Manager. Find "Universal Serial Bus controllers" and click on the plus to open it.
                      it might be easier to right click on 'my computer' and go to 'manage', but either solution will get you to device manager...
                      My OLD 2001 Mitsubishi Eclipse GT:
                      "The Project That Never Ended, until it did"


                      next project? subaru brz
                      carpc undecided

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by mnwcsult View Post
                        Go into Control Panel. I am presuming you are using Windows as your OS.

                        Select System, then Device Manager. Find "Universal Serial Bus controllers" and click on the plus to open it.

                        You are looking for "USB Root Hub", you will have as many as you have hubs. Click on the first one, the click the Power tab. It will tell you whether the hub is self powered or powered. And the Total amount of power available: 500 mA per port. So a four port hub "should" be able to sink 2000 mA, or 2A. Thats 2A times the number of four port hubs available.

                        You will also see what devices are attached and their Power Requirements. Say a Bluetooth adapter around 50 mA. Another hub connected to it 400 mA. USB hard drive 500 mA.

                        My guess is that the ones drawing 500 mA can probably draw a lot more. I have a hauppauge USB TV stick. It's documentation suggests that it be on a hub by itself if the hub is unpowered. Experience shows me it can coexist on a powered hub with a Bluetooth adapter.

                        I also have a Seagate FreeAgent USB drive that derives all of it's power from the hub and can be the only thing living on it powered or otherwise.

                        What is happening is that certain devices will draw more current than their ratings show, hard drives in particular. And will monopolize the entire hub.

                        You will have to try different combinations to see what is actually stable. You may also want to power all of the hubs through a voltage regulator.

                        Good Luck
                        Thank you very much for all of the information.

                        Well after the writing of my last post in this thread I did go into device manager and for the USB devices I clicked the power tabs and set everything to >NOT< turn this device off... They were all set to disable or turn off the device to save power or something like that.

                        Now at the moment, I havent had any issues. But I have noticed that sometimes at boot up, the four port hub does not "initialize" itself it windows properly and the device manager shows it with a yellow question mark, indication "this device has malfuntioned". After a restart, it all works fine again.

                        What I have in the hub is Lilliput, USB GPS, and an empty extension cables for easy input of a flash drive.

                        I am going to test this for a few days and if I still have issues, I will try replacing the hub with another brand and see what happens.
                        Carputer Progress
                        [||||||||||] 100%
                        Finally Installed!!
                        Everything is in the car and working.
                        I painted the cilpboard mount and it looks good.
                        Shutdown/Startup is working excellent!
                        View My Progress Here

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Let's stay within specs. usb_20.pdf 7.2 A (2.0) high powered device can use no more than 500mA and assume no more is available. Low power should be no more than 100mA. The power listings in Windows will show the maximum each device defines itself as using, and is often less when running and more on inrush, usually when starting. A hub is usually going to use 100mA, leaving 400mA to its ports when not self powered. Although there is an exception. Many motherboards now allow for much more from the root hub's ports, but the problem is that most hubs have current limiting built in so they are still limited to the 500mA max.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Why not just hook the GPS up directly to the computer?

                            Also, from experience, it isn't such a good idea to put the monitor on a USB hub. It's one more thing to go wrong and the screen is your input when driving. If the hub craps out and music is blaring you're screwed.
                            My Nearly Complete Car:
                            http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/show...ed-car-pc.html

                            Micro Control Center... Control Your Car Across the Internet
                            http://www.mp3car.com/fusion-brain/1...-internet.html

                            Website: (It's a work in progress, really. All my projects have taken me from ever really developing it.)
                            http://paulfurtado.com/

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              In the begining the screen was on it's own USB. Then when I got the GPS it was easier to get a hub and attach it up front without running a seperate line. Plus I didn't think it was that big of a deal. I use a ATI Remote Wonder in the car for volume and track skip, etc. So just in case I do have a physical mute button

                              I recently ran a old SCSI cable from the front to back to give me some wires. The cable has like 25 leads in it. So I might wire everything seperate a d just do away with the hub all together. I just use alot of USB.
                              Carputer Progress
                              [||||||||||] 100%
                              Finally Installed!!
                              Everything is in the car and working.
                              I painted the cilpboard mount and it looks good.
                              Shutdown/Startup is working excellent!
                              View My Progress Here

                              Comment

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