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  • 2,5'' hard drive damping

    Hey,

    I'm starting a car pc proyect, and planning to do it with a 2,5'' notebook HD. However, Ive seen many reports from people having troubles with this after a while.

    I'm thinking in some kind of softening for the HD. Maybe hang it from some elastic strings. Maybe using some springs.

    Has anyone of you heard or tried of anything like this?

    Tomas

  • #2
    Yeah - it gave me a laugh too.

    3.5" tend to survive, so why not 2.5" which are far more rugged by intent.

    Rubber mounting perhaps, but it must be damped - not merely sprung.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by tomasmk View Post
      I'm thinking in some kind of softening for the HD. Maybe hang it from some elastic strings. Maybe using some springs.

      Has anyone of you heard or tried of anything like this?
      Yes, and it has ended badly.

      Hard drives are a lot more rugged than you think.
      In most cases, the vehicle suspension will eliminate any shocks that are potentially damaging to the HDD.
      If you have a concern, go for a "ruggedized" HDD, but pay a premium for it.
      Or go with a SSD, again paying a premium.
      Have you looked in the FAQ yet?
      How about the Wiki?



      Under normal circumstances, a signature would go here.

      Comment


      • #4
        Maybe I should have added "the dark old days" (no relation to Darque!) when someone thought it was a good idea - or logical - to put loops in electronic component leads (such as resistors) to prevent component breakage from shock etc.
        It was a practice that took off in a massive way...
        Until a few years later when it was concluded that it cause more failures than EVER before!

        Why? A loop is a spring which means "bouncing" which means fatigue, hence breakage.

        It was "logical" or "common sense" except for those that knew better (you know - those that didn't know what they were talking about - after all it wasn't scientifically proven that "looped leads" caused fatigue and early failure LOL!!!).

        But hence my comment - NO to springs and elastics.
        Yes to shock-absorbing stuff - IF it is needed.

        Note the two different aspects we are probably all familiar with - namely car suspension - springs as distinct from shock absorbers (and that the two shall be matched)?

        Thereth my ranteth ends.

        Comment


        • #5
          This topic has been beaten to death. to death. to death.

          I'll give you the anecdotal wisdom of the forum. YMMV and I guarantee someone will chime in with a conflicting story.

          HDD's don't die from the shock of the car. The car's suspension system is actually pretty good at dampening the road jolts.

          I've always mounted mine bolted to the frame of the car and never had one fail *except* a 2.5" that failed some time after I removed it from the car. I've used several 3.5" drives and never had a failure of one of those.

          Also - drives are cheap. Clone yours and keep an image in case it actually does die. If it makes you feel better, mount it to a foam rubber padding. Don't use bungees or elastic cord as it will induce additional vibration and isn't necessary.

          If you're really worried about it - take DP's advice and put your OS on an SSD and if your music won't fit, put that on an HDD that you can easily replace if it fails.

          And now, stand by as other forum members disagree.
          Originally posted by ghettocruzer
          I was gung ho on building a PC [until] just recently. However, between my new phone having internet and GPS and all...and this kit...Im starting to have trouble justfiying it haha.
          Want to:
          -Find out about the new iBug iPad install?
          -Find out about carPC's in just 5 minutes? View the Car PC 101 video

          Comment


          • #6
            thanks a lot guys, this stuff is really usefull.

            SO i guess i'll go for the foam rubber padding.

            Another "big idea" of mine (prolly has been done a millon times b4 tho): not putting the HD horizontally, but on the side. Vertically would demand too much room in the case. I might be able to find the place to put it on the side tho.

            Could this help even more to prevent damage?

            Comment


            • #7
              No. Who's to say horizontal thrusts are less than vertical?

              Everything BugByte said is spot on... except one thing - most people don't take backups until (after) they are needed.
              BugByte captured one important issue - NOTHING beats a backup.
              The car burns, it or the disk is stolen, or the disk crashes. They are all the same thing (wrt data loss). Who cares if it was strung etc.

              Suck it and see. Then decide if you need extra protection. Or do you have the wisdom to say that rubber and mounting angle will result in less damage than "standard" mounting?
              If you do, then prove it. Compare a "standard" to an overheated & over-oscillated rubber mounted off-axis HDD.

              Comment


              • #8
                If you can tie a damper of known viscosity, a spring of given stiffness and a mass (hhd) with the proper differential equation to get a critical damping, go for it.

                Or just screw the drive to the case.
                Now Galileo is real. Muhahahahaha :p

                Comment


                • #9
                  Mounting the drive vertically rather then horzionally can also increase your drive life.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by theonlykid View Post
                    Mounting the drive vertically rather then horzionally can also increase your drive life.
                    not necessarily--the argument against this is that up/down movement could increase the seek time of the drive, or push the heads where they shouldn't be.. there was also a argument that it could still cause platter movement with side-to-side motion that could affect the heads...(i think, i can't find the thread right now)

                    you can't win, no matter what drive type.

                    one member in particular has had the same 3.5" hdd survive multiple car-totaling wrecks-- and he solidly mounted the hdd to his case..

                    and yet, my plexiglass sheet that i mounted everything to in my own install seems to cause secondary vibrations that has torn up 2 2.5" hdd's...

                    there is just no way to reliably predict a drive of any type that is better then others, or if the vibration, or some defect on the drive causes a failure...

                    we are dealing with electronic components-- from the day they are manufactured, the devices days are numbered-- for some it is very high, and others, it is very low..


                    generally speaking, the drives are usually ordered like this in terms of reliability:

                    3.5"--2.5"--ssd

                    but there is no guarantee that a ssd will last any longer then a 3.5", or that the 3.5" will fail faster even in any circumstances...

                    as bugbyte, and oldspark touched on, backups are the best way to prevent data loss, but the idea of backups usually only comes to mind after the data is lost..
                    My OLD 2001 Mitsubishi Eclipse GT:
                    "The Project That Never Ended, until it did"


                    next project? subaru brz
                    carpc undecided

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by theonlykid View Post
                      Mounting the drive vertically rather then horzionally can also increase your drive life.
                      We've had this argument a hundred times. No one has furnished any proof, other than anecdotal, that a vertically mounted drive is affected less by automotive vibration than a horizontal mount.

                      There are many who will give you reasons they think this is true but those amount to hypothesis' until/if someone ever tests them.

                      I known of many installs with vertical mounts that have worked well, and I also know of many that have worked well horizontally. In truth, I'd be willing to bet that it is heat and cold that has the most affect on the drives rather than vibration. But that's just a hypothesis.
                      Originally posted by ghettocruzer
                      I was gung ho on building a PC [until] just recently. However, between my new phone having internet and GPS and all...and this kit...Im starting to have trouble justfiying it haha.
                      Want to:
                      -Find out about the new iBug iPad install?
                      -Find out about carPC's in just 5 minutes? View the Car PC 101 video

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by theonlykid View Post
                        Mounting the drive vertically rather then horzionally can also increase your drive life.

                        BS.... This myth is a hold over from the very early hard drives. Back when only very large companies could even afford them the platters where so large they had to be formatted in the orientation they would be used in. Otherwise the flex of the platters would change enough to cause read fails in the other orientation. Any modern drive will not suffer from this.

                        Originally posted by soundman98 View Post
                        SNIP

                        one member in particular has had the same 3.5" hdd survive multiple car-totaling wrecks-- and he solidly mounted the hdd to his case..

                        SNIP

                        That would be me Two of those wrecks bent boxed full ladder frames.

                        All that said, I have had drives fail, on the desk.... but not in the car. I have been car computing since the "early days".

                        Anyone that claims they actually 'know' the reason for a drive failure works in the industry and has determined root cause in a clean room.... or does not know what they are talking about.

                        Yes, I did work in the industry at a HD factory. That was along time ago.
                        TruckinMP3
                        D201GLY2, DC-DC power, 3.5 inch SATA

                        Yes, you should search... and Yes, It has been covered before!

                        Read the FAQ!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by theonlykid View Post
                          Mounting the drive vertically rather then horzionally can also increase your drive life.
                          And it can also DECREASE it.


                          Are the bearings intended for asymmetric loading as in vertical mounting? Etc etc etc as per other replies above.

                          The statement is useless without detailing WHICH drive (models etc).

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            It is a general statement. I cant find the whitepapers that I read but the basic concept was this:
                            1st you have to remember that a hard drive is basically a fancy record player, an arm with a head that makes contact with a spinning disk.
                            When you mount the drive flat (bottom of the drive towards the ground) and you hit a bump it forces the arm/head into the platter that is spinning at 4800/5400/7200RPM. If you rotate the drive 90 degrees (and mount it so that the bottom of the is basically facing the front or back of the car) the downward force of hitting a bump is transferred down the arm instead of in to the platter.
                            This concept applies to all spinning drives, but the test results I was reading were specifically regarding 2.5" 5400 RPM drives. I believe the study was done by the Intel IVI group, but I will not swear by it.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              EXACTLY - it is a GENERAL statement.

                              Some drive do not handle the uneven g-Force when vertical else the servo is not designed for it etc.

                              And there seems to be a general assumption that vertical force changes are greater than horizontal.... Usually vehicles absorb vertical bumps better than horizontal...

                              Vertical mounting usually has greater cooling though it will be uneven across the chassis.

                              These days it probably doesn't matter whether horizontal or vertical.
                              I do know that some drives were unsuited to vertical mounting.

                              Just don't assume.... or claim warranty.

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