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  • VIA Processors Vs. P4?

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  • #2
    Yepp heat is one of them. Power is the other. I have 2 VIA processors. 900 and a 1Ghz. I power them up and a minute later, I can still touch them. I did the same thing on the same motherboard with PIII 600 chip and nearly burnt my finger off. That's less than 5 seconds after it was switched on.

    VIA C3 1 Ghz processor will emitt about 12W of heat vs P4 of the same speed emitting up to 75W. In the car in confined spaces, less heat = good.
    - Lwin M. Maung
    If it's stuck, force it. If it breaks it needed replacing anyway

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    • #3
      I really don't think that you would need any more processing power than 1Ghz can offer. One of the main benefits of the VIA boards, is their processors run pretty cool, and only require a small fan to cool them. A large Pentium 3Ghz, or Athlon XP3200+ requires a large heatsink, with a rarge fan.
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      • #4
        The question is: How much power do you really need? The VIA 1GHz processors are plenty for most media needs and the entire motherboard/processor combo can be had for the same price as just a single 2.4GHz pentium processor.

        If you really have a good reason for that much power, then go ahead and do it and let us know how it works out.
        Phillip Hullquist

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        • #5
          Have you read this review?

          http://www.mini-itx.com/reviews/nehemiah/
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          • #6
            The via c3 1Ghz is pretty weak. It doesn't even come close to other processors at the same clock speed.

            It can play mp3s, but so can a P-60mhz. The only reason the Epia M10000 can play movies is because of a built in hardware decoder (castlerock). The -V models which lack the hardware decoder stuggle with movie playback dropping frames or losing sync with audio (See Tom's Hardware Review) with cpu utilization maxed out.

            Just for comparison, I used to rip dvds into divx back in the day with a P2-400 and even it could play the DVDs back without a hardware decoder as well as playback divx. Its pretty sad that a processor whose clockspeed is more than twice as fast would struggle with this task. Bigger numbers don't neccessarily mean better performance and clock speeds are not universal measurement of performance (as was also proven during the AMD T-bird vs P4 battle not too long ago).

            Benchmark comparisons of today's common cpus:
            http://cpu.rightmark.org/benchmark.htm
            Tom's Hardware Article: (see how it fares againt a celery 667 and 1300)
            http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20020605/c3-06.html
            The results were interesting to say the least. The M10000 did hold its own in certain areas, but did get humilated a few times too.
            Older Tom's Hardware Article: (Comparison b/w Via - Incl. media benchmarks)
            http://www.tomshardware.com/motherbo...ni_itx-07.html

            I like the M10000 for its small size, low power consumptions, and low heat/quite cooling. Its perfect for cramming into your dash, under a seat, or a tiny box. It also offers very competitive pricing. But it can't play games, you have limited upgrade potential, its not as peppy/snappy as your desktop box, and lacks serious power for cpu intensive tasks (encodings, photoshop, multitasking). As stated above, the question to ask is will you need that much cpu power in your car?

            I use my carpc for mp3s, movies, nav, and internet. All of this can be accomplished by the M10000 without it breaking a sweat. But, I also use it for gaming (Monopoly on long trips, GTA Vice City if I'm bored, Need For Speed: HP2 to practice avoiding cops, etc). I've also used it to quickly rip a friends cd before roadtrip. Often times I do these things simulataneously. Winamp3, CoPilot2k3 boot at startup with Windows XP. The passenger can continue to use the desktop, surf the internet, play a non 3d game, etc without any mp3 skipping. I wanted to be able to do anything I could on my desktop in my car, including plenty of head room for upgrades.

            I went with a microATX board and P4 2.4 that fit perfectly into an empty storage box in the cargo area. It was used for a cd changer in older model years of my car (replaced with indash), so it was the perfect size and properly ventillated. It even had a convenient pull out cover that gives easy access to pc guts. The perfect opening for the mATX board, made the choice easier. I didn't face size and heat constraints.

            Edit:
            Clarification - P2-400 DVD playback (kami333)
            Correction - M9000 does have a hardware decoder (frodobaggins)
            Added - Benchmarks/CPU Utilization Comparison of older Epias
            Includes cpu usage for media playback tasks.
            -TJ
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            • #7
              I think that quickly looking at the benchmark results that the VIA is ideal for mp3 car solutions, like seriously, who wants to play UT anyway, Q3 kicks ***. And aslong as it runs, I mean so what if you can't run 1024*768 at 30 fps, no big deal
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              • #8
                You may want to ask the Via C3 users first before jumping to a P4. It may be able to handle the task at hand.

                Heres a recent sff discussion:
                http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=17175

                I wouldn't go with a ZPC or similar unless you plan on using the box. They are pretty pricey. You can find an ITX P4 mb if size is a problem. And the post above shares some other options.
                -TJ
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by tejesh83
                  It can play mp3s, but so can a P-60mhz. The only reason the Epia M10000 can play movies is because of a built in hardware decoder (castlerock). The M9000 and -V models which lack the hardware decoder stuggle with movie playback dropping frames or losing sync with audio (See Tom's Hardware Review).

                  Just for comparison, I used to rip dvds into divx back in the day with a P2-400 and even it could play them back without a hardware decoder. Its pretty sad that a processor whose clockspeed is more than twice as fast would struggle with this task. Bigger numbers don't neccessarily mean better performance and clock speeds are not universal measurement of performance (as was also proven during the AMD T-bird vs P4 battle not too long ago).
                  Too bad the Epias only have a MPEG-2 decoder, which has nothing to do with decoding divx (MPEG-4) files

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by tejesh83
                    The M9000 and -V models which lack the hardware decoder stuggle with movie playback dropping frames or losing sync with audio (See Tom's Hardware Review).
                    Correction:
                    All M series have the hardware decoder.
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by SOBIL
                      I think that quickly looking at the benchmark results that the VIA is ideal for mp3 car solutions, like seriously, who wants to play UT anyway, Q3 kicks ***. And aslong as it runs, I mean so what if you can't run 1024*768 at 30 fps, no big deal
                      you gotta be joking. I want to play UT. Q3 blows. So when and if im stuck in traffic for over an hour im gonna have a bot match to pass the time.
                      But seriously, ive been thinking of passing up the via route myself. Just dosent seem to be enough power. Plus i dont want something thats going to take 3 minutes to boot up. You would think that the mini-itx boxes would boot really fast since the motherboard is stripped down with less stuff to think about. But everyone here who has one wants to know how to reduced the boot time. Although heat issues are an issue with intel chips, but if the box is small enough, (mini-atx or similar) you can move the box inside the cabin instead of the trunk. My glove box has AC so as soon as that new super small intel board comeout im gonna stick it in there. Right now im running a dual PIII 450Mhz and dont have any serious heat issues. Except for one day this summer when it was really, really hot outside and the inside of my car and trunk were like an oven. It had to be over 100 degrees in the trunk. I over heated nasty, almost right after boot up. i popped the trunk and let all the heat out and other than that its been fine.
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                      • #12
                        "Correction: All M series have the hardware decoder."

                        The original post has been fixed. Thanks.

                        "Too bad the Epias only have a MPEG-2 decoder, which has nothing to do with decoding divx (MPEG-4) files"

                        Because I used it for ripping, I thought it was implied that the P2-400 could playback MPEG-2/DVD. I used to preview vob files and copy to right ones to hd before ripping (dvdrom were too slow at the time). I meant to emphasize that a P2-400 with 1/2 the clockspeed or less of the Via C3 processor is capable of dvd playback without a hardware decoder. I have clarified the initial post.

                        Here are some cpu utilization and benchmarks for dvd playback from an older Tom's Hardware review:
                        http://www20.tomshardware.com/mother...d_dvd_playback
                        There's some other info there as well including more gaming benchmarks
                        -TJ
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                        CarPC - 05 Acura TL Navi (pics soon)
                        Retired CarPC - 03 Infiniti Qx4

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by liquid_smoke
                          Plus i dont want something thats going to take 3 minutes to boot up. You would think that the mini-itx boxes would boot really fast since the motherboard is stripped down with less stuff to think about. But everyone here who has one wants to know how to reduced the boot time.
                          My M10000 goes from power-on to desktop in about 35-40 seconds for a full-boot, and about 20-25 seconds if resuming from hibernate.

                          Where you're getting 3 minutes from, i'm not too sure. Maybe if someone has got it looking for a network boot first, or something else that's set up wrong in the BIOS, that's just an id-10-t error.

                          My M10000 can playback 1400mb DivX5 files without hiccups, and has not stuttered on anything i've thrown at it so far. Granted i'm not about to sit down and play Q3 or UT on it, i've got videos for when i'm stuck in traffic, or otherwise there will be passengers to talk to!!


                          Garry
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by tejesh83
                            "Correction: All M series have the hardware decoder."

                            The original post has been fixed. Thanks.

                            "Too bad the Epias only have a MPEG-2 decoder, which has nothing to do with decoding divx (MPEG-4) files"

                            Because I used it for ripping, I thought it was implied that the P2-400 could playback MPEG-2/DVD. I used to preview vob files and copy to right ones to hd before ripping (dvdrom were too slow at the time). I meant to emphasize that a P2-400 with 1/2 the clockspeed or less of the Via C3 processor is capable of dvd playback without a hardware decoder. I have clarified the initial post.

                            Here are some cpu utilization and benchmarks for dvd playback from an older Tom's Hardware review:
                            http://www20.tomshardware.com/mother...d_dvd_playback
                            There's some other info there as well including more gaming benchmarks
                            I know that review. Compare the CPU usage etc of the Eden 5000 and C3 800, makes no sense, don't you think? I have both and can tell you that they do not perform like that, I'm suspicious that they mixed up the boards or something.

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