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  • easiest way to build this circuit?

    Im trying to use a single momentary button to cycle these two functions.

    first press = momentary pulse 12v to contact A
    second press = momentary pulse or latch 12v to contact B (if latching, it would have to reset/unlatch upon the next button press)
    (rinse and repeat)



    bonus points if there could be a delay on each button press. i.e. you have to hold the button for 2 seconds in order to reduce unintentional presses.


    could this be done with relays and a simple resister capacitor circuit?
    Last edited by scott_fx; 03-28-2011, 06:28 PM.
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  • #2
    this is about as close as i can find-- requires 2 momentary switches:


    (taken from here)
    555/556 Bistable (flip-flop) - a memory circuit
    The circuit is called a bistable because it is stable in two states: output high and output low. It is also known as a 'flip-flop'.

    It has two inputs:

    * Trigger (555 pin 2) makes the output high.
    Trigger is 'active low', it functions when < 1/3 Vs.
    * Reset (555 pin 4) makes the output low.
    Reset is 'active low', it resets when < 0.7V.

    The power-on reset, power-on trigger and edge-triggering circuits can all be used as described above for the monostable.






    then there is this thread:
    http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/sh...ad.php?t=33897


    actually, the link in ^that thread seems to be exactly what your looking for:
    http://www.discovercircuits.com/DJ-C...-off-latch.htm
    My OLD 2001 Mitsubishi Eclipse GT:
    "The Project That Never Ended, until it did"


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    • #3
      Originally posted by soundman98 View Post
      this is about as close as i can find-- requires 2 momentary switches:


      (taken from here)
      555/556 Bistable (flip-flop) - a memory circuit
      The circuit is called a bistable because it is stable in two states: output high and output low. It is also known as a 'flip-flop'.

      It has two inputs:

      * Trigger (555 pin 2) makes the output high.
      Trigger is 'active low', it functions when < 1/3 Vs.
      * Reset (555 pin 4) makes the output low.
      Reset is 'active low', it resets when < 0.7V.

      The power-on reset, power-on trigger and edge-triggering circuits can all be used as described above for the monostable.






      then there is this thread:
      http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/sh...ad.php?t=33897


      actually, the link in ^that thread seems to be exactly what your looking for:
      http://www.discovercircuits.com/DJ-C...-off-latch.htm

      thanks for the links but i only need to pulse the contacts. maybe explaining my application will help.

      im building a pushbutton start for my boat using a dei remote start module. it needs a 12v pulse on one lead in order to start the engine then to shut off the engine it looks for another 12v pulse (from your brake light) on another lead.

      im trying to accomplish this with a single momentary button.

      actually.... i could use a latching button and a spdt relay. but... that wont 'pulse' the 'engine start' lead.

      ---------- Post added at 06:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:01 PM ----------

      i found this:
      use a latching relay with two common SPDT relays

      When the coil of the latching relay it is momentarily energized, one contact and the common are closed and stay closed even after the coil is no longer energized. When it is momentarily energized again, the other contact and the common are closed.

      For each actuator, connect one motor lead of the actuator to #30 of an SPDT relay and #87a to ground. Connect the other motor lead of the actuator to a second SPDT relay and wire as above. On the first relay connect #86 to one of the contacts (non common) of the latching relay and connect #86 of the second SPDT relay to the other contact (non common) of the latching relay. Connect #87 and #85 of both SPDT relays and one side of the coil of the latching relay to 12V+. Connect the (-) output of one momentary switch to the cathode sides of two diodes. Connect the anode side of one diode to the other side of the coil of the latching relay and connect the anode side of the second diode to the common contact of the latching relay.

      When you press the momentary contact switch, the motor should move in one direction for as long as you hold it and stop when you release it. When you press and hold it again, it should move in the opposite direction.
      from here:
      http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/...=19&TPN=1&PN=1

      now to figure out how to get that 'long press' function
      Last edited by scott_fx; 03-28-2011, 09:09 PM.
      New System in progress:
      M10k
      Phaze TD1500 ~> Dynaudio MD130
      Phaze TD1500 ~> Seas g18rnx/p
      Zapco Ref 500.1 ~ 12" tc-9
      Behringer DCX2496 ~ Envision Electronics psu
      Transflective Xenarc

      My Car Pc Install
      My Boat Pc worklog

      Comment


      • #4
        Would something like this work?

        http://www.digitalguarddawg.com/2GOKEYLESS2.html

        It is advertised for boat use. Or, is this not compatible with your remote start module?
        Last edited by kegobeer; 03-28-2011, 11:03 PM.
        1999 Mercury Grand Marquis GS with: ASRock E350M1 w/4GB RAM, 80GB Intel SSD, Opus DCX3.120, Visteon HD Radio + HDR-USB, PL-18N wifi, OBDLink Scan Tool, BTA6210 BT, BU-353, Win 7 Ultimate, CF 4.0, Alpine MRP-F240 + MRP-T220, RF Punch 1572s, Kicker 8" Comp.

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        • #5

          From the12volt's momentary pb to constant on.

          Since you'd have 4 inverters (or 2 other gates) spare, you could add an RC delay...

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by kegobeer View Post
            Would something like this work?

            http://www.digitalguarddawg.com/2GOKEYLESS2.html

            It is advertised for boat use. Or, is this not compatible with your remote start module?
            thanks, but that is more then what i need and more then i want to spend. I rarely leave my boat unattended and i'll be adding a simple hidden kill switch so rfid isn't necessary for me. I'm confident i can achieve the same results using a remote starter module and a simple pushbutton circuit


            Originally posted by OldSpark View Post

            From the12volt's momentary pb to constant on.

            Since you'd have 4 inverters (or 2 other gates) spare, you could add an RC delay...
            thank you oldspark. one thing that confuses me (still learning about building circuits) is how will this toggle between two outputs. the schematic only shows one output.

            i looked up the pdf and it didnt help me much.
            http://www.produktinfo.conrad.com/da...-en-74HC04.pdf

            and for future searches. here is a tutorial with examples for a rc start up delay circuit:
            http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/rc/rc_1.html
            could be used for a amp delay
            Last edited by scott_fx; 03-29-2011, 02:27 PM.
            New System in progress:
            M10k
            Phaze TD1500 ~> Dynaudio MD130
            Phaze TD1500 ~> Seas g18rnx/p
            Zapco Ref 500.1 ~ 12" tc-9
            Behringer DCX2496 ~ Envision Electronics psu
            Transflective Xenarc

            My Car Pc Install
            My Boat Pc worklog

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by scott_fx View Post
              one thing that confuses me is how will this toggle between two outputs.
              Use it to switch a relay that toggles between the two outputs....

              The circuit merely toggles for each press of the button, ie, flips between hi & low (like a T-type flip-flop).
              Either hi or low can be used to controls a relay - eg, low turns on a hot (+12V) relay by grounding it; hi supplies voltage (+12V) to a relay, or you use a single SPDT (changeover) relay etc.

              Just be wary of what current the relay requires compared to what the gate (inverter) can supply (sink or source).
              That depends on what package is selected, and - of course - what relay....



              PS... Good RC reference - a great combination of text, formulae & pics - it makes it sound less daunting (even if the significance of a differentiator isn't understood - you see how a cap (RC) can edge-detect; and there's the old time & frequency domain again....)

              And I can help with driver current - ie, what is needed to drive what relay.
              I might even review your desire to figure a circuit... time permitting, and memory remembering!
              Last edited by OldSpark; 03-29-2011, 03:59 PM. Reason: PS...

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by OldSpark View Post
                Use it to switch a relay that toggles between the two outputs....

                The circuit merely toggles for each press of the button, ie, flips between hi & low (like a T-type flip-flop).
                Either hi or low can be used to controls a relay - eg, low turns on a hot (+12V) relay by grounding it; hi supplies voltage (+12V) to a relay, or you use a single SPDT (changeover) relay etc.

                Just be wary of what current the relay requires compared to what the gate (inverter) can supply (sink or source).
                That depends on what package is selected, and - of course - what relay....



                PS... Good RC reference - a great combination of text, formulae & pics - it makes it sound less daunting (even if the significance of a differentiator isn't understood - you see how a cap (RC) can edge-detect; and there's the old time & frequency domain again....)

                And I can help with driver current - ie, what is needed to drive what relay.
                I might even review your desire to figure a circuit... time permitting, and memory remembering!
                oh great. that is a lot of help. my one concern though, if im using a spdt relay, i need just a single pulse for the 'engine start' lead. would you suggest just using a monostable 555 timer circuit between the spdt relay and the 'engine start' lead? or did i misunderstand your explanation?
                Last edited by scott_fx; 03-29-2011, 04:29 PM.
                New System in progress:
                M10k
                Phaze TD1500 ~> Dynaudio MD130
                Phaze TD1500 ~> Seas g18rnx/p
                Zapco Ref 500.1 ~ 12" tc-9
                Behringer DCX2496 ~ Envision Electronics psu
                Transflective Xenarc

                My Car Pc Install
                My Boat Pc worklog

                Comment


                • #9
                  Aha! Now that I read your OP a bit better....

                  Yes - you are correct, though maybe spare gates instead of a 555.

                  (Don't get me wrong - I love the 555 - but in retrospect I realise it was overused when simpler or alternatives were possible. Plus the 555 has a relatively high current drain - it's only 10mA, but that is significant in solar etc applications, and can drain car batteries in a few weeks; 10mA being equivalent to a LED, or ~1/20th of a 3W bulb - why have that if 0.1 or 0.01mA is possible?).

                  Alas the problems of using ONE switch for multiple things... did I mention PICs? (Nah - far from needing that as yet... speaking of current consumption...)


                  But only recently did some clever person put me on to a good site, and from MOSFET as a Switch I saw its reference to an experiment Using a MOSFET as a Switch which has a delayed off circuit down the page...
                  ...from brunningsoftware.co.uk

                  Not that that is the full solution (because we need the "toggle" to be a pulse), but in combination with a capacitor differentiator...
                  (Don't you hate people that give me the big words to use?)


                  But more later.... I'm late for elsewhere (my other reality).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    It would make things easier if you could add a second button to shut down the Engine. When you use the same button it becomes complicated real quick.
                    A a switch a resistor and capacitor in parallel and a relay is all you need for each circuit.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I was going to the same thing for my car. But i was using a microcontoler (basic stamp) I like the idea of the dei what dei are you using?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Hotwaterwizard View Post
                        It would make things easier if you could add a second button to shut down the Engine. When you use the same button it becomes complicated real quick.
                        A a switch a resistor and capacitor in parallel and a relay is all you need for each circuit.
                        it would make it a lot easier, but would not look or function like oem. Im very particular about my projects and i don't want this to look like it was a hack job.


                        Originally posted by themlruts View Post
                        I was going to the same thing for my car. But i was using a microcontoler (basic stamp) I like the idea of the dei what dei are you using?
                        i think i'm going with the Directed Electronics 551t but still have to research it some more.
                        im not sure how it'll work in a car situation. in a boat; as in my application, we dont really have an 'acc' mode that is integrated with the ignition, there is actually a separate toggle switch for that. You'd have to modify the circuit to monitor the brake light. if it gets a 12v signal while you press the power button, then it'd start the car. i guess that could be done with a simple relay on the 'engine start' lead

                        the reason why im using the dei module is that it will monitor the tachometer and start the engine safetly and correctly stop cranking at the right moment.
                        New System in progress:
                        M10k
                        Phaze TD1500 ~> Dynaudio MD130
                        Phaze TD1500 ~> Seas g18rnx/p
                        Zapco Ref 500.1 ~ 12" tc-9
                        Behringer DCX2496 ~ Envision Electronics psu
                        Transflective Xenarc

                        My Car Pc Install
                        My Boat Pc worklog

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I am assuming the boat is FI?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            you assume correctly sir. it's just a regular indmar (chevy) fuel injected 350 small block v8
                            New System in progress:
                            M10k
                            Phaze TD1500 ~> Dynaudio MD130
                            Phaze TD1500 ~> Seas g18rnx/p
                            Zapco Ref 500.1 ~ 12" tc-9
                            Behringer DCX2496 ~ Envision Electronics psu
                            Transflective Xenarc

                            My Car Pc Install
                            My Boat Pc worklog

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I would definitely use a micro-controller and a pair of transistors. But if you do not have a way to program the controller it adds expense. But this would make it easy for a push-button to mimic what you want to do. Another poster mentioned PIC, yet another mentioned BasicStamp. I use Atmel ATMega / Arduino stuff. A relatively quick and simple piece of code is all it would take.

                              John
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