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  • Viable Non-Resistive 8.4" Touchscreen Kit Solutions?

    While the resistive touchscreens are most prevalent, the optical alignment hassles for mating with a transflective panel appear to limit the modularity of the solution. This bothers me. In previous LCD/Display posts, Turbocad6 and others have stated that capacitive touch screens are free of this burden. It appears that this is also true of SAW. I am also concerned about glare and reflections. My understanding is that capacitive touchscreen surfaces have to be very smooth and uniform. Apparently, there are AR coatings available for the glass-based touchscreens.

    I am kitting my own display and I want a capacitive or SAW touchscreen for an 8.4” display. See the LCD/Display forum for discussion on possible NEC 8.4” transflective candidate panel. Based on my limited research, SAW looks most attractive, although it may have a reduced temperature range. MicroTouch and Elo TouchSystems appear to offer non-resistive solutions in 6.5” and 8.4” sizes, based upon documentation.

    I want to run a Linux OS so the driver may become an issue. Worst case I can use MS Windows. I also prefer a 50C-60C operation for immediate summertime operation while the A/C cools the interior. I ran some deep Google searches and found the following information:

    8.4” SAW Touchscreen Options
    http://www.winmate.com.tw/Lcd/Intell...uchscreens.htm
    http://media.elotouch.com/pdfs/datas...litouch_ds.pdf (datasheet for above link)
    http://media.elotouch.com/pdfs/manuals/intelli.pdf (detailed install manual)
    http://www.amsimpex.com/products/SAW...screen%20.html (in India)
    http://www.made-in-china.com/showroo...ch-Screen.html (GoldApple Mfr, in China)

    8.4” Capacitive Touchscreens
    http://www.ezscreen.com/capacitive_touch_screens.html (also 6.5”)
    http://www.digikey.com/scripts/dksea...name=3M5520-ND (8.75”)
    http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T073/P2273.pdf(touchscreen and controller for 8.75” and 6.71”)
    http://www.amsimpex.com/products/cap...uchscreen.html (in India)

    My brief research leads me to pick IntelliTouch for SAW and MicroTouch ClearTekII for capacitive. Pricing is unknown for the SAW option, but looks like Winmate distributes it? The other SAW links appear to be international, which could raise the lead time and shipping price. Based on the Digikey pricing, which is generally higher than average, the 8.4” capacitive solution with controller can be done for under $200. Perhaps Ezscreen is cheaper for capacitive?

    Who is using SAW? Who is using Capacitive? Which would you recommend based on your experience? I will try to get pricing information for both solutions from the links above.

  • #2
    capacitive has glare issues, as does saw. I think glare issues can be delt with more with saw than capacitive, saw seems to be more promising I think, but I don't have any experience with any good saw antireflective touchpanels...

    bonding the lcd to the touchpanel is the best way to really cut down on glare, as it eliminates 2 of the 3 glare surfaces, but is not a diy solution.
    MY NEWEST INSTALL:modded infiniti fx with big screen

    first windows carpc install........my liquid cooled LVDS screen :D

    Comment


    • #3
      I dug deeper and recorded 6.4", 8.4", and 10.4" information.

      SAW

      Deeper searching with ELO IntelliTouch part number PCNs, product manual cross-referencing, and eBay searches has clarified my understanding of the current offerings. It appears the 8.4” SAW IntelliTouch has been EOL based on the latest company site search. I still see it for sale at a few places, so I have a little hope, but not much.

      IntelliTouch SAW Screens

      ELO IntelliTouch 6.4" Flat Antiglare SAW TouchScreen (P/N E044941 a.k.a. SCN-IT-FLT06.4 a.k.a 433451-000 )
      Sellers:
      http://www.neutronexpress.com/prod.cfm/582837/ for $58.08
      6.4” Drawing:
      http://media.elotouch.com/pdfs/drawi...ms600055_a.pdf

      ELO IntelliTouch 8.4" Flat Antiglare SAW TouchScreen (P/N E676255 a.k.a. SCN-IT-FLT08.4 a.k.a 518375-000 )
      Sellers:
      http://www.aplus-sa.com/fr/showprod....7&div=2&fbr=30 (French Site unknown cost)
      http://www.neutronexpress.com/prod.c...stems/E676255/ for $92.16
      http://www.nextwarehouse.com/item/?4...ystems_E676255 for $93.83
      8.4” Drawing:
      http://ecommas.tycoelectronics.com/c...MS600122_A.pdf

      ELO IntelliTouch 10.4" Flat Antiglare SAW TouchScreen (P/N E753610 a.k.a SCN-IT-FLT10.4 a.k.a 464629-000 a.k.a 269259-000)
      Seller: http://www.neutronexpress.com/prod.cfm/561374/ for $70.70
      10.4” Drawing:
      http://media.elotouch.com/pdfs/drawi...ms600131_a.pdf


      IntelliTouch Controller

      2500U SAW USB Controller (P/N 714259-000) Discontinued Nov 2003
      2701RSU Dual Serial/USB Controller (P/N D68054-000) Replacement
      Specs:
      http://www.elotouch.com/Products/Tou...h/c2701rsu.asp
      Drawing:
      http://media.elotouch.com/pdfs/drawi...ms600473_b.pdf
      Seller:
      http://www.pcconnection.com/ProductD...ci_sku=7782279 for $80.29
      Drivers for MS Windows and Linux (Binaries and Source)
      http://www.elotouch.com/Support/Downloads/dnld.asp

      Controller USB Cable
      ELO CAB-XT-20PIN-USB-08 (P/N D38640-000)
      Seller:
      http://search.ncix.com/displayproduc...20TOUCHSYSTEMS for $14.90

      With many unknowns I will hazard at budget guess at $190-$200. Note the long backorders for panel. I could roll my own USB cable.

      8.4” SAW Total: Estimated $200



      Capacitive

      Ezscreen capacitive touchscreens are comparable to ClearTek and they work with 3M Microtouch controller. The 3M EX II controllers have the better operating temperature of –40C to 70+C and smaller form factor. I am leaning toward the 3M solution from DigiKey, which was used for all the pricing in this section.

      MicroTouch ClearTek II Capacitive Touchscreens

      MicroTouch ClearTek II 6.71"Capactive TouchScreen (3M P/N 17-8091-203) $98.60
      MicroTouch ClearTek II 8.75"Capactive TouchScreen (3M P/N 17-8921-203) $102.00
      MicroTouch ClearTek II 10.83"Capactive TouchScreen (3M P/N 17-8921-203) $103.70
      Specs For All:
      http://multimedia.mmm.com/mws/mediaw...66SeEzCOrrrrQ-

      MicroTouch ClearTek II Controller

      3M EX II Capacitive Controller - USB (3M EXII-7710UC) $78.20
      Photo: http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/3M/W...XII-7710UC.jpg
      Guide:
      http://multimedia.mmm.com/mws/mediaw...66SBhaCOrrrrQ-
      OS Drivers for MS Windows and Linux (binary and source RPMs):
      http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3.../TouchDrivers/


      USB Interface Cable

      USB Cable: EX II Controller to PC 8’ Black USB Cable (3M P/N 7314420) $14.00

      8.4” Capacitive Total: $194.20


      Does anyone have experience with the ELO IntelliTouch or the MicroTouch ClearTek II? I would like to make a decision by the end of this month as I need to nail this down and move forward to the software. Car PC fever can really take its toll, especially on sleep ....

      Comment


      • #4
        Turbocad6, do you know of any shops that do bonding on the single quantity level? I recall one of the members here shipping his gear to Hong Kong for bonding. One of the LCD/Display threads discussed the $275K worth of equipment to do the bonding, so looks like the ole' rolling pin and can of spray adhesive won't cut it.

        Looks like this company can do it, but maybe not for a small fry guy with only one setup:

        http://www.gdoptilabs.com/documentat...nding_lcds.htm
        http://www.gdoptilabs.com/products/optical_bonding.htm

        Their sister General Digital site sells un-bonded, capacitive touch screens for $375 (only with an LCD purchase):

        http://www.generaldigital.com/produc...ccessories.htm

        Yikes. Maybe only military budgets are welcome there? I'll contact them this week to see what they say. Maybe if I buy everything from them, then I stand a chance? I have a bad feeling...

        Comment


        • #5
          This company may do single quantity work:
          http://www.i-techcompany.com/sunligh...-displays.html

          Details On Optical Bonding
          http://www.i-techcompany.com/sunligh...-displays.html

          Comment


          • #6
            spmclaugh mentioned IR touchscreens from Digikey in the Display/LCD forum. I checked Digikey and saw the IRTOUCH touchscreens for 8.4" panels. IRTOUCH offers a K series with NO GLASS! This would eliminate all reflectivity issues! spmclaugh, thanks for expanding the possibilities!

            I am new to touchscreen technology and I have been conditioned to wearing the resistive/SAW/capacitive blinders...

            IRTOUCH
            http://www.irtouchusa.com/

            IRTOUCH K Series
            http://irtouchusa.com/Upload/K.pdf

            Digikey (sold in lots of 20 at $139.86, currently sold out!)
            http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/indexc13812.html

            I have got to get to bed, but man, if this is viable.... no optical bonding... and the NEC panel already has AR coating....oh, man, sweet!

            Comment


            • #7
              Is there a way to edit the thread title to the following:

              Viable Non-Resistive 8.4" Touchscreen Kit Solutions?

              I suppose this is a moderator/admin operation?

              Comment


              • #8
                I could change the tittle in the lcd forum, but not in input devices, you should be able to change the tittle yourself though as author of the thread, check in thread tools at the top
                MY NEWEST INSTALL:modded infiniti fx with big screen

                first windows carpc install........my liquid cooled LVDS screen :D

                Comment


                • #9
                  Found it, thanks.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The IRTOUCH corporate site views better under IE, or IE Tab in Firefox. Their FAQ answered my basic questions, the biggest being how well the IR receivers operate in direct sunlight. This is a biggie. The marketing info says all is well, but I never trust marketing. I would like to see a few technical reviews on IRTOUCH before I pull the trigger.

                    While cost is listed as a con for an IR touchscreen, I think this is only for larger touchscreen sizes due to the materials cost (metal framing, PCB, IR array, etc). For the 10.4" sizes and below, the IR solution is cheaper. Consider that the IR controller is integrated into the IR array frame with a standard USB cable attached (may require an extender). This unit, say for the 8.4" E series (with glass ), retails in single quantity on Digikey at ~$130. I estimated the SAW or Cap 8.4" solution to be ~$200.

                    Clear cons would be the sensitivity (4096x4096 is interpolated) and the fact the the system adds more depth, which can affect the aesthetics of the bezel. Also the IR touchscreen frame is bigger! I believe by 1.6" on each side of the screen area for 8.4", so more elaborate dash restructuring may be necessary. I will check this in detail tomorrow after I have slept. Hopefully its not a deal-killer. I think IR would be worth more serious dash work. I would probably sub it out to someone.

                    I think I need the K08D05MU-01. I still need to decode how the glass/no glass option is specified...as a suffix? Can we just remove the glass? I hate glass. "Do not WANT"

                    I was also concerned about OS driver support, but they appear to have good coverage:
                    Drivers

                    8.4" Drawing Specs for Module E08 (E-Series targets the smaller displays and has glass, but I think we want the K-series in custom 8.4" size):
                    http://www.irtouchusa.com/Upload/E08.pdf

                    I found a video of the IRTOUCH on display at SID 2007 on YouTube:
                    http://www.youtube.com/user/irmultitouch
                    We should request more videos from the IRTOUCH member! In sunlight! Does your tech truly 0wn? If it does, we can print some "All your touch all belong to IRTOUCH" T-shirts!

                    Also, on a SID-based search tangent, I found the following:

                    Directory of the Display Industry (Jackpot!)

                    The above link is a treasure trove of manufacturer/distributor links that we may be able to leverage in the future.

                    IRTOUCH is based in Beijing. If English-based Google digs yield Zarro Hits, then I may need to hit the Chinese sites with Babelfish. Are there any Chinese individuals following this thread? I may need your language skills in the future.

                    Time to run the deep searches. GoogleBot, don't fail me now...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      MagicTouch offers DIY IR touchscreen kits using their modular OPTIR technology. This allows you to integrate the IR array in your existing bezel with a spacer to offset from the LCD screen.

                      Optir Touch Overview
                      http://www.magictouch.com/IR_screen.html

                      Example 65" Kit
                      http://www.magictouch.com/setup-082707-65.pdf

                      Demo Video
                      http://www.magictouch.com/ASF_0164.ASF

                      The downside is that it is EXPENSIVE! I ran their Excel sheet and the total cost with controller was $782!

                      Oh well, it was worth a try...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Ezscreen sells an 8.4" IR screen, which may be an IRTOUCH (specs are very similar).

                        Overview
                        http://www.ezscreen.com/wavelength-i...ch-screen.html

                        FAQ
                        http://www.ezscreen.com/wavelength-faq.htm

                        Store - No 8.4" Listed
                        http://www.ezscreen.com/onlineshop/e...arget=d19.html

                        Drivers - No WaveLength Linux Drivers
                        http://www.ezscreen.com/download_current.html

                        They offer different glass types, so I think I can get no glass. I'll submit an inquiry. One of the nice features with this IR touchscreen technology is -41ēC to +70ē C operation!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Found IRTOUCH Users Manual, pretty dull, but page 17 to end cover properties and calibration menus. Looks mature.

                          User Manual
                          http://www.irtouchusa.com/Upload/UserManual.pdf

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            On the optical bonding front, I came across G-Bond:

                            2005 Brochure: G-Bond Technology
                            http://www.clearviewdisplays.com/ima...chure_2005.pdf

                            Pricing: G-Bond with AR Coating ($300 single quantity)
                            http://www.clearviewdisplays.com/gbond.html

                            Demo Video with Floodlight
                            http://www.clearviewdisplays.com/ima...ewdisplays.wmv

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              From the marketing info, I think i-techcompany (linked previously) is using G-Bond.

                              It turns out that the soda lime glass used in the bonding blocks UV light. Nice! The GDS Clearview bonding is reworkable, so they can test afterwards and correct if needed. I will request details on the surface reflectivity of the AR coating. The SID2007 info stated they achieve an overall reflectivity of 2%. This has to be without AR coating??

                              One possible solution is to use the IRTOUCH with no glass on this G-Bonded AR coated soda lime glass. That would be a total of $430 for touchscreen, but I bet the ECR would be sick! Awaiting reflectivity number to run the ECR equation.

                              I think I will "stick" with the 3M AR-MP200....

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