Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Little sreen affordability

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Little sreen affordability

    hi all,

    i shelved my project couple years ago due to no using car much and other hobbies that grabbed my attention. now i'm looking back to get in (as i will be driving more) and looking at things again. I just can't not to notice that while tremendous progress (as always) is happening with copm hardware, the little automotive touch screens are essentially exactly at the same place where they were 3 years ago. how come such little progress in that area? and what is more important how come the price did not go down one bit and actually seems to go up? over 700 for sun readable screen, how is this justifiable? i understand it is quite a niche market but still...


    or is there some substantial breakthrough in the screen tech that i failed to notice?

  • #2
    It sucks, doesn't it?

    And really good, bright LCD displays (virtually sunlight readable) like the Xenarc 702TSV have brain-dead firmware - like the inability to tell it "please never reverse the image". As a result, 10 percent of the time when your car computer comes out of hibernation, centrafuse (or whatever you are using as a front end) is unreadable because

    !sdrawkcab ekil ,lla si yalpsid eritne ehT

    You have to power the display off/on to fix it.

    By now there should be a $150 7" touchscreen with 1000 nits, smart (fully configurable) firmware, and a DVI with EDID (or HDMI) input. Instead you pay over $400 in the case of the aforementioned, and it works OK if you can get your chipset to allow you to modify timings and the display happens not to choose bizaarro mode when it powers up.
    SeeYa! -Jim-

    Comment


    • #3
      Huge nit count != sunlight readable.

      The first tries to outshine the sun. Interesting but fail most of the time. The second uses the sun to reflect. That's why there is a huge price difference, and there is really no comparison between them when seen in person.

      And you can now get an ebay screen for $150 instead of $200-$230 that will work just as well as the other models.

      But really... The screen is the one main piece of hardware for the CarPC that you will see and interact with every day and every second the CarPC is even operational. Why would you spend all the money to get an awesome CarPC, and then skimp on the screen?
      Fusion Brain Version 6 Released!
      1.9in x 2.9in -- 47mm x 73mm
      30 Digital Outputs -- Directly drive a relay
      15 Analogue Inputs -- Read sensors like temperature, light, distance, acceleration, and more
      Buy now in the MP3Car.com Store

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by 2k1Toaster View Post

        But really... The screen is the one main piece of hardware for the CarPC that you will see and interact with every day and every second the CarPC is even operational. Why would you spend all the money to get an awesome CarPC, and then skimp on the screen?
        Testify brother !!!! LOL

        Thats why I spent $600 on my 10.4" for my Yukon and now $675 for my Optically Bonded , transflective , antiglare 7" for my Sorento.

        I'm not spending a lot of money on a car PC to not be able to see it.
        My 2007 Yukon XL setup. http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/show...64-5000-a.html

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by 2k1Toaster View Post
          That's why there is a huge price difference,
          sorry, but that does not explain a lot. you just stated the obvious price difference between the 2 tech's. where is this price difference coming from? that trans-flective tech can not be that much more expensive (we talking times from 200 to 700). GPS units are quite readable during the day, and there are some with quite a screen sizes that are dirt cheep. it is possible.

          so, the quesion is why that daylight readable screen sold here is 700$ today when it was 700 3 years ago? or is it simply because somebody takes advantage of the fact there is no alternative?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Tankist View Post
            sorry, but that does not explain a lot. you just stated the obvious price difference between the 2 tech's. where is this price difference coming from? that trans-flective tech can not be that much more expensive (we talking times from 200 to 700). GPS units are quite readable during the day, and there are some with quite a screen sizes that are dirt cheep. it is possible.

            so, the quesion is why that daylight readable screen sold here is 700$ today when it was 700 3 years ago? or is it simply because somebody takes advantage of the fact there is no alternative?
            GPS units are not VGA. You can probably get those screens for pretty cheap since they are put in millions of units. Taking an already existing VGA touchscreen and then shipping it back and forth to be hand bonded is not exactly volume discount friendly.

            Price difference for a 1000nit screen is a) a beefier backlight circuit (probably less than a dollar in parts) and b) 2 CCFL tubes that have a higher output (again probably less than a dollar difference each). The manufacturing process doesnt need to change at all, the only difference is the parts list.

            Price difference in a real transflective VGA monitor with a touchscreen is mostly in labour. A machine will solder a part regardless of what it is at the same cost essentially. The gooping and vacuuming of an LCD's internals in a high level clean room by engineers costs a tad more than the electric bill.

            And again the volume sold is a big factor. Even OEM car makers and OEM headunit makers are using less than VGA LCDs. Since everyone uses that, it is cheap. When something mainstream comes out that requires a 7" or 8" transflective VGA monitor with touchpanel, the prices will drop drastically. But really 7/8 inches is too big for anything mobile, and too small for anything in the laptop world (that would pay for the difference. A $300 netbook doesnt need a $300 screen). So it is restricted really to trivial things like picture frames and then us. And probably for every 1 that buys a transflective, 200 or more buy the el cheapo model.
            Fusion Brain Version 6 Released!
            1.9in x 2.9in -- 47mm x 73mm
            30 Digital Outputs -- Directly drive a relay
            15 Analogue Inputs -- Read sensors like temperature, light, distance, acceleration, and more
            Buy now in the MP3Car.com Store

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Tankist View Post
              [snip]...how is this justifiable? i understand it is quite a niche market but still...
              Apparently you don't understand that. The VGA small touchscreen with sunlight readability market is a niche market. The volumes are low. There is little competition. The price doesn't go down. Not hard to understand.

              And the car PC market is only a sliver of the small touchscreen market. The call for a sunlight readable display that is VGA is even smaller. Engineering a screen that does all of that costs money and the return to the manufacturer is probably negative. Better to sell VGA screens to supermarket checkout point of sale vendors who don't need and wouldn't pay for a sunlight readable monitor.

              There have been some tech advances you may not have noticed, though. MIMO is now selling screens that are USB only. That is a real change, although I haven't seen anyone put one in their car yet.
              Originally posted by ghettocruzer
              I was gung ho on building a PC [until] just recently. However, between my new phone having internet and GPS and all...and this kit...Im starting to have trouble justfiying it haha.
              Want to:
              -Find out about the new iBug iPad install?
              -Find out about carPC's in just 5 minutes? View the Car PC 101 video

              Comment


              • #8
                Also in 3 years the LED versions have come out instead of the CCFL's
                Fusion Brain Version 6 Released!
                1.9in x 2.9in -- 47mm x 73mm
                30 Digital Outputs -- Directly drive a relay
                15 Analogue Inputs -- Read sensors like temperature, light, distance, acceleration, and more
                Buy now in the MP3Car.com Store

                Comment


                • #9
                  still

                  https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?...11547#specsTab
                  top model garmin nuvi 5000 sunlight readable touchscreen 5.2" 800 x 480 pixels - enough to do VGA. with MSRP of 500$ they also need to squeeze in bunch of other hardware + the software development is not free. that 500 hundred also includes the price of braggin rights, i think we all know that margins are much higher on top units which also makes them are niche product as well (i don't know many people who today buy top model GPS's at premium). strip all the parts not needed for our application leave the panel, signal converter, touchscreen) and you easy fall into less then 300 for perfectly sun readable 5.2" touch screen.

                  better yet - no name 7" GPS unit . couldn't find the exact resolution but it has to be sufficient to run that win-mobile os (probably) a touchscreen and it has to be sunlight readable.
                  here we basically strip the premium one would pay for garmin's name. (although there is a saving on not having proprietary software)

                  and now back to car screens.
                  the ordinary Lili screen is 250$ complete with all the electronics, packaging, development costs. how on earth the sunlight readability option can be almost twice more then the device itself? even if it is a custom upgrade which is more expencive since it is outside of normal manufacturing process - 450$ to bond a film onto the screen? it just doesn't add up for me.



                  i understand that if one wants sunlight readable vga screen for his car it is that or nothing , but somehow i just can't shake the feeling that the market situation is grossly exploited.

                  i understand you happy with your screens but do you guys really think the situation is as it should be?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    if you honestly think they just glue a film to the screen, you need to read up on how transflective upgrades work before we continue...
                    Fusion Brain Version 6 Released!
                    1.9in x 2.9in -- 47mm x 73mm
                    30 Digital Outputs -- Directly drive a relay
                    15 Analogue Inputs -- Read sensors like temperature, light, distance, acceleration, and more
                    Buy now in the MP3Car.com Store

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Tankist View Post
                      do you guys really think the situation is as it should be?
                      Supply and demand.

                      Who cares how the consumer feels about it.

                      The price on an item will ALWAYS be as high as the market can bear.
                      Public opinion matters not.

                      This discussion is pointless really. The price will go down when
                      A. More manufacturers make said item.
                      B. Consumers stop buying said item driving the price down so that sales pick up.
                      C Cheaper technology is introduced into the market.

                      Funny how the buyer always says the price is to high but the seller always says they are selling it to cheap.

                      Depends on what side of the fence you sit huh?
                      My 2007 Yukon XL setup. http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/show...64-5000-a.html

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        just for the record I do not and never have sold screens of any kind... I say the price is fair for the quality and huge improvement over nontransflective. And there are various grades of transfective screens, some for $500. They arent as good as the ones offered here, but they are better than the cheap non-sunlight models.
                        Fusion Brain Version 6 Released!
                        1.9in x 2.9in -- 47mm x 73mm
                        30 Digital Outputs -- Directly drive a relay
                        15 Analogue Inputs -- Read sensors like temperature, light, distance, acceleration, and more
                        Buy now in the MP3Car.com Store

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by 2k1Toaster View Post
                          if you honestly think they just glue a film to the screen, you need to read up on how transflective upgrades work before we continue...
                          i'm not saying you selling screens.
                          question is are you saying by this that the price is justified?

                          EDIT:
                          as far the pointlesness of the discussion, yeah, i guess it is totaly pointless...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I think it's justified.
                            "stop with the REINSTALLS, what do you think we got some lame-o installer!!!" - mitchjs
                            RevFE
                            My Shop

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Tankist View Post
                              i'm not saying you selling screens.
                              question is are you saying by this that the price is justified?

                              EDIT:
                              as far the pointlesness of the discussion, yeah, i guess it is totaly pointless...
                              yes. Between the volume, the labour involved, and the tech behind it, the costs are definately justified. This is the aircraft technology that used to cost $5k to $10k for a screen not too long ago.

                              If you want the best, be willing to pay.
                              Fusion Brain Version 6 Released!
                              1.9in x 2.9in -- 47mm x 73mm
                              30 Digital Outputs -- Directly drive a relay
                              15 Analogue Inputs -- Read sensors like temperature, light, distance, acceleration, and more
                              Buy now in the MP3Car.com Store

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X