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Why Xenarcs and Lilliputs are so expensive for what they are?

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  • Why Xenarcs and Lilliputs are so expensive for what they are?

    Originally posted by tempgp View Post
    as to those pix, thats why i wnated to tear down iPad and use its screen for car pc
    Originally posted by dune View Post
    That crossed my mind too, then considered non-wide screen and the unruly proprietary interfaces and controllers Apple probably used. I'm going to go find me an iPad teardown article just for grins.
    (From this thread)

    iPad tear down here:



    And the Lilliput: (couldn't find a better pic, but it looks like some capacitors are as tall as those on the Xenarc...everything looks inelegant and really, are all those necessary? Look at the iPad MB again, who does the display controller part and everything else)





    iPad cost: $499.00

    Lilliput: $350.00 to $749.00, if transflective.

    WTF?

    Today people are buying $400.00 50" plasmas (no other industry has slashed their prices so much AFAIK), why hasn't Xenarc and Lilliput got their act together and start selling those for what they're worth, about $50.00 (so that we can pay the tranflective upgrade withouth feeling like suckers).

    Or upgrade the thing already if they want to charge several hundred dollars: brighter (how come a small phone or tablet on battery can be brighter than a DC powered screen?); capacitive, multi-touch, and maybe thinner.

    Right now, I'm having trouble paying anything over $50.00 for these. That's what they are worth IHO, we're talking about 15 year old tech...that hasn't changed and that apparently feel there's no need to change!


    Before you're say this is Apple, unique proprietary tech, etc. and that the cost is low due to the billions sold (which is partially true, but it's not the whole story since the iPad is not subsidized and it's not much more than a phone really) you must note that there are pretty close if not better competitors (as far as the display quality is concerned - of course the iOS is a big reason why the iPad sell so well but that's beside the point here).

    The tech is not something unique to Apple, since many iPad clones and other Android tablets that seems to be just fine being cheap and thin. Pretty much every smart phone manufacturer has that tech we want - great bright, contrasty displays. Take a look:



    And it's not just giants like Samsung either. Viewsonic just released an Android tablet (ViewPad), a pretty good effort at that with a great display and tech, so this is not exactly black magic.

    Not to mention the Chinese clones.

    Not the same quality perhaps, but I'm willing to bet some of them at least match Lillis and Xenarcs output, while costing $50-$100.00 (just search on ebay for android tablets and iPad clones) - all this while including the software/bios code development and the computing capacity a dumb monitor doesn't have.


    A better screen like that could be on the market already, and specialized manufactures such a Lilliput and Xenarc should be doing that. But I fear they will never do it, since people keep buying them the way they are now, and have for the last several years .

    Food for thought, IMHO.
    Worklogs: 08 Sequoia Platinum Carputer (In Progress!)
    Skin: MetroSex on the Beach preview

    07 Infiniti Fx35 (done!) & 06 Infiniti M35 (gone...)

  • #2
    As I mentioned in oreginal thret (see below)
    Another thing about propriatary parts We dont care, it uses ARM CPU so we can isntal WinCE on Ipad do custom drivers if needed.... or better we can put linux there

    Back to screens: (quoted)

    if you guys want I can give screen to my engeneer and to Video + Touch adapter for iPad screen. I have resources for that. Only thing is that my hands cant rise agains killing working iPad maybe some one can give me the link for parts? I know cpasitive panels are available on ebay, BUT actuall screen i dont know where to get, I know there are screens on ebay too but what is the chanse that it is as good screen as the one orginal iPad has?
    Acura / Honda A/V CarPC Adapter GA-NET+
    Centrafuse Garmin Mobile PC Skin - GMPC Rebellium Skin
    3D Tuning and Car Visualizer - Preview your car in 3D, change paint job and rims

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    • #3
      You answered your own question - it's billions sold plus a little thing most people ignore called marginal cost.

      Apple sells a zillion of these things, so they can get rock bottom pricing. Check.

      But Apple also has an ongoing R&D department that has digital engineering and design skills (and partners) that are razor sharp from designing years of iPods. Adding an iPad screen onto their plate was *much* lower cost than trying to engineer an inexpensive one from scratch.

      They already know all of the ins and outs of the hardware design, the controllers and the drivers for them. They can put together an iPad screen for waaaaaay less money than someone who has to hire or research that information.

      Lilli and Xenarcs do something no one else does - they operate on 12V in the car at a specific size and accept PC inputs. The market for that is much smaller, nobody is stupid enough to enter it, both Lilliput and Xenarc are insanely aware of each other's prices and they both have them set at about the same levels. Apple will never enter this market - at least not for the same purposes as Lilli/Xenarc.

      One day the vendors will turn over in this market. Will Xenarc or Lilliput make the jump to OLED's or will it be a new vendor who comes into this market? History tells us it will be someone different. Why isn't WesternDigital or Seagate the leader in SSD's? Because they don't know how to make them and they're milking their old products until they go the way of all of the other drive manufacturers that they replaced the last time around.

      Go ahead - reverse engineer the iPad screen. Sounds cool. Post the results, also sounds cool!
      Originally posted by ghettocruzer
      I was gung ho on building a PC [until] just recently. However, between my new phone having internet and GPS and all...and this kit...Im starting to have trouble justfiying it haha.
      Want to:
      -Find out about the new iBug iPad install?
      -Find out about carPC's in just 5 minutes? View the Car PC 101 video

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Bugbyte View Post
        Go ahead - reverse engineer the iPad screen. Sounds cool. Post the results, also sounds cool!
        Should be easy
        Acura / Honda A/V CarPC Adapter GA-NET+
        Centrafuse Garmin Mobile PC Skin - GMPC Rebellium Skin
        3D Tuning and Car Visualizer - Preview your car in 3D, change paint job and rims

        Comment


        • #5
          Bugbyte, Apple's display is not the only one that trumps lillis. Wanna bet the cheaper viewsonic is much better. How many does viewsonic sells again?

          Pretty much ANY smartphone manufacturer produces a better brighter display...say what you want about the Chinese iPad knock offs, they're still fitting everything in the same form factor..not the 2+ inches thick bricks we are used to see around here.
          Worklogs: 08 Sequoia Platinum Carputer (In Progress!)
          Skin: MetroSex on the Beach preview

          07 Infiniti Fx35 (done!) & 06 Infiniti M35 (gone...)

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          • #6
            Please point me to the ones that are superior, cheaper, and accept VGA input.
            Originally posted by ghettocruzer
            I was gung ho on building a PC [until] just recently. However, between my new phone having internet and GPS and all...and this kit...Im starting to have trouble justfiying it haha.
            Want to:
            -Find out about the new iBug iPad install?
            -Find out about carPC's in just 5 minutes? View the Car PC 101 video

            Comment


            • #7
              Why can you go out and buy a 7 inch tablet PC for 100 to 200 even 300 for a 10 inch?
              But to buy a Lilliput that is only a monitor for 275 to 700 with nothing but a screen.
              I agree they need to cut some prices to stay in business or it looks like the android tablet will be the new car PC.
              Why not 200$ drops in your dash and does everything a car PC can do maybe some are limited but for a little more money will do anything a PC can.
              I hope the other monitor company's read this post and step up to the new revolution
              ANDROID.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Bugbyte View Post
                Please point me to the ones that are superior, cheaper, and accept VGA input.
                Well the iPad does not accept a VGA input, so if that's a defining criteria, than what was your point in your earlier post on the iPad?

                I would say pretty much any smartphone and tablet manufacturer has done a better job than both Xenarc and Lilliput on the display department. Take your pick.
                Worklogs: 08 Sequoia Platinum Carputer (In Progress!)
                Skin: MetroSex on the Beach preview

                07 Infiniti Fx35 (done!) & 06 Infiniti M35 (gone...)

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by jontheinstaller View Post
                  Why can you go out and buy a 7 inch tablet PC for 100 to 200 even 300 for a 10 inch?
                  But to buy a Lilliput that is only a monitor for 275 to 700 with nothing but a screen.
                  I agree they need to cut some prices to stay in business or it looks like the android tablet will be the new car PC.
                  Why not 200$ drops in your dash and does everything a car PC can do maybe some are limited but for a little more money will do anything a PC can.
                  I hope the other monitor company's read this post and step up to the new revolution
                  ANDROID.
                  Exactly.

                  Some are cheaper than a standard lilliput, but one of the best ones (the iPad) is actually several hundred dollars cheaper than a transflective Lilliput...while including a whole computer, storage and connectivity...


                  What I find most amazing is that tablets are so much brighter even though they're battery powered...which is not as good a source as a DC powered monitor if you want to build a bright screen...I actually think the iPad, the Tab, the Viewsonic, and others perform a small miracle.

                  I have a 500nit 700 TSV, and boy does it get hot...processing nothing, just being there displaying things - efficient? I don't think so. The iPad screen beats it easily even at 1/2 brightness...Even my transflecive LE1700 does not get such brightness and specially contrast.
                  Worklogs: 08 Sequoia Platinum Carputer (In Progress!)
                  Skin: MetroSex on the Beach preview

                  07 Infiniti Fx35 (done!) & 06 Infiniti M35 (gone...)

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                  • #10
                    android + vnc == network based monitor?...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by CescoAiel View Post
                      android + vnc == network based monitor?...
                      I thought about running VNC on an iPad over adhoc wifi to control the carPC. Wicked sick.
                      tango/dune
                      Infiniti QX4 2002 project (done!... for now)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by jontheinstaller View Post
                        Why can you go out and buy a 7 inch tablet PC for 100 to 200 even 300 for a 10 inch?
                        But to buy a Lilliput that is only a monitor for 275 to 700 with nothing but a screen.
                        I agree they need to cut some prices to stay in business or it looks like the android tablet will be the new car PC.
                        Why not 200$ drops in your dash and does everything a car PC can do maybe some are limited but for a little more money will do anything a PC can.
                        I hope the other monitor company's read this post and step up to the new revolution
                        ANDROID.
                        Ok android tables screens are not good at all All once i seen where resistive screens. Acer and Toshoba and HP promises to release capasitive once but i dont think they out on the market yet?

                        Aslo keep in mind regular monitors and even iPad and Andid tablets will need some sory of PSU shild protection from alternator enterferance. This is not hard to add manually (jsut a filter sircuit) but it is not present is not car monitors (TM, Liliput sem to have chep filters but they are there)
                        Acura / Honda A/V CarPC Adapter GA-NET+
                        Centrafuse Garmin Mobile PC Skin - GMPC Rebellium Skin
                        3D Tuning and Car Visualizer - Preview your car in 3D, change paint job and rims

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by tempgp View Post
                          Aslo keep in mind regular monitors and even iPad and Andid tablets will need some sory of PSU shild protection from alternator enterferance. This is not hard to add manually (jsut a filter sircuit) but it is not present is not car monitors (TM, Liliput sem to have chep filters but they are there)
                          True, but those filters are not worth several hundred bucks!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by tempgp View Post
                            Ok android tables screens are not good at all All once i seen where resistive screens. Acer and Toshoba and HP promises to release capasitive once but i dont think they out on the market yet?
                            Huh? Have you seen the Galaxy tab? Android, capacitive. I've seen it in person. Gorgeous screen.

                            There's also the Viewsonic Ideapad. Android 2.2 (7") or dual boot Android/Windows7 (10"), capacitive. (this is the thread; no love for this one I don't know why! )
                            Worklogs: 08 Sequoia Platinum Carputer (In Progress!)
                            Skin: MetroSex on the Beach preview

                            07 Infiniti Fx35 (done!) & 06 Infiniti M35 (gone...)

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by tempgp View Post
                              Ok android tables screens are not good at all All once i seen where resistive screens. Acer and Toshoba and HP promises to release capasitive once but i dont think they out on the market yet?
                              And BTW, Zenithink has 2 (7"and 10.2") sizes in 2 versions (resistive and capacitive) each with Android 2.1, so I think your research is a bit lacking!

                              And since we're comparing to Lili and Zenarc, where are THEIR capacitive screens?

                              These tablets go for $100-150, and have multiple USB ports, GPS, WiFi and wired ethernet... Maybe their batteries are not too good, but several hours is still better than a single screen, and even proper laptop have only recently started getting more than a few hours out of a battery charge, so let's keep this in perspective!

                              Esp. if you're only going to use them as a fancy VNC based screen for your real CarPC, they deliver a whole lotta bang for your buck!

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