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  • more confused after searching! noob questions/carputer parts related

    so after seaching somewhat diligently through the archives. i still confused about a few things. its also hard to go down them step by step since the problems are somewhat interrelated.

    to start off i want my carputer to do is
    1) GPS
    2) MP3
    4) DVD/VCD

    WHAT I HAVE IN MIND!!!!

    this is practically what the inside of my car looks like. (SORRY srcstc i hope you dont mind me taking your pic as reference.)




    to clarify abit further i am talking with some people right now and we might be trying to design a custom mount so the LCD sould be pulled up from that lower storage area. basically an alternative to a folding in LCD screen. ignore blue circle.


    1.the problem is deciding which mobo to go for.

    i came to a conclusion that EPIA mobos are for very basic stuff(not sure if basic = those 3 things mentioned above) and the mini atx (a variety w/ athlon or Pent Ms) will be near par to a desktop. this also factors into problem #2


    2. Size
    EPIA are pretty smaller than most ITX by quite alot, in a sense.
    size apparently will be a factor for other things. this will be discussed later. see prob #3.

    3. dvd/cd slot loading drive
    i have not found a good dvd/cd slot loading drive. i found the link the pioneeer dvd-120sz but that damn thing is HUGE.(5.8 x 1.6 x 7.7 in.) i was hoping to put the dvd/cd in the place of my OEM (non harmon) stockunit cd player.

    unfortunately this is where some questions pop in. im not sure on the specific dimensions of that area where the old head unit is. only the cdplayer/radio is being taken out the climate control will be left in. but ideally i would like to find a dvd/cd driver (doesnt have to be slot loaded cept for coolness factor) that can fit in this area.

    4.) placement
    i dont mind if its housed in the trunk or under the passenger's seat. i just worry that the passenger wont be able to lower their seats so if its in the trunk its no problem. if its in the trunk then size wouldnt matter too much otherwise size would be a problem. now assuming its in the trunk i would have to run and IDE cable for about a meter or so to the front of the car where the dvd is going to placed?! that seems unheard of... and if its under the passenger seat i think it would be limited to a EPIA board.


    to sum it up.
    1) which motherboard and their respective processors will handle EFFICENTLY with little loading time MP3, GPS, and DVD decoding?
    2) a suitiable DVD/CD drive?
    3) what is a viable place to put the mobo? if its under the passenger seat then mobos will be most likely be limited to EPIAs if trunk then a ide cable will have to be pulled for a meter long!

    im goin to try to complete this under two weeks. starting a week or so from now once all the parts arrive. by no means are these plans set in stone, im very open to suggestions.

    thank you all for your help!,
    Rick

  • #2
    1. why do you say epias are basic? I have an epia and I do everything you listed and more. I mean what did you want to do in your car that would make the EPia basic? that's your first answer

    2. also answered by #1

    3. there is a pansonic slot load dvd floating around on ebay look for that. Otherwise you can run a usb/firewiree (ieee-1394) drive up front to eliminate the long ide cable problem.

    4. as for placement the best and easiest location would be in the trunk, I dont understand how this would interfere with your backseat passangers. Also if you go with the trunk route get any motherboard that you want, slap a beefy video card, maybe a mobile processor for less juice, etc... feel me?
    Mine needs to be updated.

    Comment


    • #3
      based on everything i read people most of the time, if compared to a mini atx. the EPIAs seem to be around 1 gigz compared to most of the solutions on a miniatx which is usually pent/athlon M at higher speeds.

      hrmm so EPIA boards even though i think the fastest is the eden m9000? is that really fast enough for mp3s while doing GPS calculations?

      what GPS software do you use? how long per route calculation?

      do you know the specific model of that dvd drive? or suggest any that are somewhat smaller or better than the pioneer one. i might be reading the dimensions wrong actually... 5.8 x 1.6 inches L x W isnt that big actually

      i cant believe firewire/usb external dvd drives didnt come to mind. im so used to doing desktops w/ scsi and ide, gota think external and small for this. =D

      Comment


      • #4
        Heck yes, I played MP3s on my 333 while browsing the internet back in 98, and GPS is pretty dang basic, all the hard work is done by the GPS itself. You have a pretty skewed idea about PC power!

        BTW, the fastest Epia is the M10000. It can encode movies while playing music, browsing the web, etc. It's plenty fast for a CarPC.
        Chrysler 300 - Fabricating
        http://hallert.net/

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Chairboy
          all the hard work is done by the GPS itself. You have a pretty skewed idea about PC power!
          appearantly you have a pretty skewed idea about something. if by 'hard work' you mean 'resource intensive', you couldn't be further off base.

          However, the EPIAs can certainly handle GPS navigation. It takes about two secconds for my 9000 to calculate the route for a 300 mile trip (running street atlas).

          If you've got the money for and means to cool a mini atx though, go for it.
          car computer rev 5: 8" lilliput and usual suspects

          Comment


          • #6
            seems like either EPIAs or mini atx would be able to easily handle what i had in mind.

            anyone recall some good mini atx mobos + cpu combinations, 2-4 pci slots, 1 agp thats practically enough, few USB, firewire, good cache size, fsb, etc? also a good vid card? im tempted to go with a high end radeon/geforce but then again power limitations come to mind.

            it seems like trunk mounting is the best option. a mini-atx seems quite more apealing to me since i get to chose my own vid card instead of some generic built in one with the EPIAs

            how is video playback(dvds vcds) on the EPIAs actually compared to say a radeon 8*** mobility?

            btw thank you all for the input +D

            Comment


            • #7
              video playback isn't the kind of intensive use that radeons shine under. I would say you couldn't tell the difference.
              car computer rev 5: 8" lilliput and usual suspects

              Comment


              • #8
                time for some 3dmax! results? =D

                Comment


                • #9
                  [QUOTE=robiewp]appearantly you have a pretty skewed idea about something. if by 'hard work' you mean 'resource intensive', you couldn't be further off base.[QUOTE]

                  I'm guessing you're one of the 'the meat comes from the grocery store' type of guys, while I'm more of the 'the meat comes from a butchered cow' type of guy.

                  The hard work is receiving a signal from up to 12 NAVSTAR satellites, then, based on the IDs being received, do a 3 dimensional transformation to convert the timing data into a geographic fix to within 30 or so feet.

                  The amount of math needed is incredible, as is the precision needed to know the difference between receiving timing signal a239598 at time index 12:34:34:45:34 GMT and receiving it at 12:34:34:45:30 GMT.

                  So yes, all the hard work is done by that innocent looking little brick that you seem to take for granted.

                  After that, a database lookup on a PC and drawing some pictures doesn't seem that big a deal anymore, does it? BTW, did it on my Palm V back in the late 90s, I'm pretty comfortable at saying that an Epia 10K can probably swing it too.
                  Chrysler 300 - Fabricating
                  http://hallert.net/

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I guess you've proved me wrong by stating that 'it takes a lot of math' to perform a triangulation.

                    It seems to me that some of your 'meet comes from the grocery store' too. "a database loookup on a PC and drawing some pictures doesn't seem to be a big deal". I'm not going to spout information i'd have to look up, but anyone who has taken more than an introductory programming class has experience with just how intensive database lookups and image rendering can be.

                    After that, some basic trigonometry and other operations capable of being performed by a $5 calculater don't seem like a big deal. Don't get me wrong, a GPS certainly is cool, and what it does is impressive, but the ammount of math required is not.
                    car computer rev 5: 8" lilliput and usual suspects

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      can you guys reccomend any GPS reciever + software?

                      voice directions would be nice but most important is the maps and intutive user friendly display. would also be nice if the software didnt suck too much outa the CPU.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by robiewp
                        It seems to me that some of your 'meet comes from the grocery store' too. "a database loookup on a PC and drawing some pictures doesn't seem to be a big deal". I'm not going to spout information i'd have to look up, but anyone who has taken more than an introductory programming class has experience with just how intensive database lookups and image rendering can be.
                        Not that it matters, but I'm actually in professional software development. In fact, you probably have some of my work on your computer.

                        But I'm sure you'd never let something like the facts get in the way of your assumptions. The $5 trigonometry done by a calculator is really only part of the work, you forgot about the precision timing. It would be very resource intensive to do the real-time timing and calculations on a PC to replicate the job of a GPS. The GPS can do it so well because it has specialized circuitry that does one thing, and one well.

                        Don't believe me? Install a 12 channel data acquisition card in your PC, hook each channel to a radio receiver tuned to a NAVSTAR frequency, and start your timing. I pick 12 because that's what a standard cheapo modern GPS does. Since this will exceed the number of built in hardware timers in a Pentium class CPU, you'll have to emulate the timers in software. Since you'll be doing timing in the sub millisecond precision range, expect to spend a LOT of ticks watching your TTL lines on the DAC for the beginning of the rising pulse on each packet, and so on.

                        Meanwhile, on a Pentium 200 two towns over, someone running Street Atlas 1.0 from 1996 is doing a moving map display with ease.
                        Chrysler 300 - Fabricating
                        http://hallert.net/

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Here's where I back away humbled, as you're clearly more knowledgeable about the subject thank I, and thus I don't have much hope of responding well. The argument i would make, however, if i were more knowledgeable, is that the specialization of circuitry (or transfer of operations from software to hardware) not only applies to the working of a GPS, but that of a graphics card. Last time I looked, even the simplest of graphics cards capable of, for example, running a graphical navigation screen, were pretty involved (including in comparison to the workings of a GPS). If I had your knowledge of the subject, I might similarly conceive of a method to move all of the processing done by a graphics card to the CPU, giving the CPU the responsibility for determining the state of 300,000 or so pixels 60 or so times a second...

                          I appreciate that you've avoided saying, "you can't be reasoned with" and continue to try and explain things to me... I just want to understand Some people are more easily perturbed by 'arguing'

                          Tdevil, sorry for the hijack...
                          car computer rev 5: 8" lilliput and usual suspects

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Actually, I was a little snotty in my last reply, specifically the start of my second paragraph. Sorry 'bout that, it's a subject that fascinates me (the mechanics of GPS) and I sometimes let myself get carried away.

                            You're absolutely right about the video card, btw, without them we'd be back in the Atari 2600 days in terms of graphical sophistication.

                            A fun bit of trivia, did y'all know that the Atari 2600 and the Ninendo NES (the one w/ Super Mario Brothers, Duck Hunt, etc) both had the exact same processor? 'How is this possible?!' you might ask, as I did. The answer: dedicated sub processors for graphics and music. Pretty neat stuff.
                            Chrysler 300 - Fabricating
                            http://hallert.net/

                            Comment

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