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Help with m350 carpc case and which power supply to use

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  • Help with m350 carpc case and which power supply to use

    hey i have a m350 enclosure with a GIGABYTE GA-H55N-USB3 mb I was just wondering what power supply would be best for this.. i was looking at m3-atx but it doesnt look like it will fit since the hd has to be on that site because of the cpu fan
    M350 Black case | Gigabyte GA-H55N-USB3 MB | Intel Dual Core 2.93ghz | GeIL 4gb (2x2) DDR3 | M4-ATX
    inside of my
    2005 Acura RSX Type S
    Hooked up to
    Alpine type-r all around + Infinity Basslink

  • #2
    The M3 may fit, but I seriously doubt it would power a system based on the hardware you're looking at. A suitable PSU would have to be outside the case.

    In addition, you're looking at an Intel Core iX CPU, which will need CPU cooling that will likely not fit vertically in the M350 case. From what you say, you may very well have done a test fit with the CPU cooler, so this may be a moot point.

    Either way, you're looking at a PSU that will not fit in your M350 case.
    When choosing a PSU, I would recommend looking primarily at functionality, and form as a secondary criteria.
    Have you looked in the FAQ yet?
    How about the Wiki?



    Under normal circumstances, a signature would go here.

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    • #3
      I am considering this as well but will probably build a custom case for it

      I was trying to find out the what the power requirements are for:

      Gigabyte GA-H55-USB3 motherboard

      They don't seem to list this type of info on their website. I was wondering if it is a variable amount depending on what you have connected?

      i3-530 CPU = 73W

      Is there a standard amount of wattage that a piece of RAM uses (1 x 2Gb DDR3)?

      I can get the SSD / aux drive specs from the respected manufacturer sites.

      I want to make sure i get the right startup/shutdown/power supply for this setup. I was considering a CNX-2140 for startup/shutdown, and a M4-ATX just for the MB, CPU, RAM, SSD, and Aux Drive.
      2003 HCH Work Log
      - Official OpenMobile Builder/Tester

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Gecko483 View Post
        I am considering this as well but will probably build a custom case for it

        I was trying to find out the what the power requirements are for:

        Gigabyte GA-H55-USB3 motherboard

        They don't seem to list this type of info on their website. I was wondering if it is a variable amount depending on what you have connected?

        i3-530 CPU = 73W

        Is there a standard amount of wattage that a piece of RAM uses (1 x 2Gb DDR3)?

        I can get the SSD / aux drive specs from the respected manufacturer sites.

        I want to make sure i get the right startup/shutdown/power supply for this setup. I was considering a CNX-2140 for startup/shutdown, and a M4-ATX just for the MB, CPU, RAM, SSD, and Aux Drive.
        i think you need to do some more research. ALL inteligent atx power supplies in the mp3 car store include a startup/shutdown controller-- this is the same for both the m4 and the carnetix that your looking at..

        also, what do you need the power of the i3 for?
        My OLD 2001 Mitsubishi Eclipse GT:
        "The Project That Never Ended, until it did"


        next project? subaru brz
        carpc undecided

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        • #5
          Originally posted by soundman98 View Post
          i think you need to do some more research. ALL inteligent atx power supplies in the mp3 car store include a startup/shutdown controller-- this is the same for both the m4 and the carnetix that your looking at..
          This was not a statement of what I am going to get but only what I am considering, I know I have a bit more research to do, the reason for my posting was to find out what the actual load the board draws in addition to the CPU and RAM. Only after I know that can I appropriately figure out what power supply/etc I need. I am also aware that all the aforementioned products have startup and shutdown capabilities. I take my time in planning before putting together a system. Posting here in the forums just allows me to draw from the members knowledge.

          Originally posted by soundman98 View Post
          also, what do you need the power of the i3 for?
          The reason for going with an i3 is that I am really sick of the way the ZoTaC ATOM ION performs, I do not like how reduced everything is. I am a little spoiled with i7's and AMD's K10 X6 processors and expect my car computer to be able to perform well when it is running the same software, I guess what I am saying is that I just expect a little more then most from my car computer to use a ATOM processor.
          2003 HCH Work Log
          - Official OpenMobile Builder/Tester

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          • #6
            I have the m3 on order to see if it fits

            m2 might have enough power, depending on peripherals.

            Corrected ps reference

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Gecko483 View Post
              This was not a statement of what I am going to get but only what I am considering, I know I have a bit more research to do, the reason for my posting was to find out what the actual load the board draws in addition to the CPU and RAM. Only after I know that can I appropriately figure out what power supply/etc I need. I am also aware that all the aforementioned products have startup and shutdown capabilities. I take my time in planning before putting together a system. Posting here in the forums just allows me to draw from the members knowledge.



              The reason for going with an i3 is that I am really sick of the way the ZoTaC ATOM ION performs, I do not like how reduced everything is. I am a little spoiled with i7's and AMD's K10 X6 processors and expect my car computer to be able to perform well when it is running the same software, I guess what I am saying is that I just expect a little more then most from my car computer to use a ATOM processor.
              ok, as long as you have a good reason .

              recently, it seems like a lot of new members feel that they need a core2duo, or i7 just for music playback...

              i hate recommending it, but if you go past the power ratings of the current market of available dc-dc power supplies, it might be better to go with a properly sized inverter setup..

              i don't remember anyone else using multiple dc-dc's on a single motherboard, and i am really not sure how the computer would handle it. my primary concern is that most dc-dc's are use buck-boost tech to up the voltage-- so if the frequencies are off between dc-dc's, it could cause some very odd issues(maybe something like a weird ground loop?)..
              My OLD 2001 Mitsubishi Eclipse GT:
              "The Project That Never Ended, until it did"


              next project? subaru brz
              carpc undecided

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Gecko483 View Post
                This was not a statement of what I am going to get but only what I am considering, .................
                since the i3 likely uses less total power than the atom, and can be purchased for ~$185 with a mobo, it's hardly a wild choice. I don't know why anyone would want an atom/ion setup anymore.
                The issue is handling peak power. The M350 is rated at 65TDP with just a cpu fan (and good ventilation around the case). If the M3 fits, that's an easy choice.
                Peak cpu can be throttled back in both win 7 and linux.

                The M3 has plenty of power unless you planning on a raid system with desktop drives.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by dmiller View Post
                  since the i3 likely uses less total power than the atom, and can be purchased for ~$185 with a mobo, it's hardly a wild choice. I don't know why anyone would want an atom/ion setup anymore.
                  The issue is handling peak power. The M350 is rated at 65TDP with just a cpu fan (and good ventilation around the case). If the M3 fits, that's an easy choice.
                  Peak cpu can be throttled back in both win 7 and linux.

                  The M3 has plenty of power unless you planning on a raid system with desktop drives.
                  There is so much wrong with your post, I am frightened for anyone who accepts your advise.

                  1 - The lowest power i3 CPU (i3 5xx @ 73w) draws roughly 5.5 times as much as the highest-power Atom CPU (D510 @ 13w). Where are you getting your information about the i3 likely drawing less power than the Atom?

                  2 - The M350 doesn't have any rating whatsoever. It's just case.

                  3 - What is 65TDP? I am pretty certain I know what you're trying to say, but I want to hear it from you. Humor me.

                  4 - Because of the low power output, the M3 isn't recommended for anything except the lowest power systems, namely Atom-based setups. For an Atom-based setup, it has "plenty of power". You could possibly use an M3 for a setup based on a low-power mobile CPU (40w TDP or less), as well. For anything else, it's a poor choice.
                  Have you looked in the FAQ yet?
                  How about the Wiki?



                  Under normal circumstances, a signature would go here.

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                  • #10
                    1)




                    2) From mini-box:

                    The M350 is Industry's smallest universal case (192 x 210 x 62mm , 2.5L) capable of housing mini-ITX boards ranging from tiny Atoms to fully featured desktop or mobile CPUs. The M30 permits fanless operation (natural air convection via hundreds of tiny holes) for TDP < 10 watts and CPU-only fan for TDP <= 65watts.

                    ouch FAQ writer

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by dmiller View Post
                      1)


                      The first graph measures power draw at idle. Those are great numbers if you're going to have your computer powered on and just sitting there doing nothing.

                      The second graph is a measure of efficiency. The i3 is definitely a more efficient CPU than the Atom D510, but the overall power draw when the CPU is actually working is much greater than that of the Atom.

                      This graph is far more telling:



                      Nice try.




                      2) From mini-box:

                      The M350 is Industry's smallest universal case (192 x 210 x 62mm , 2.5L) capable of housing mini-ITX boards ranging from tiny Atoms to fully featured desktop or mobile CPUs. The M30 permits fanless operation (natural air convection via hundreds of tiny holes) for TDP < 10 watts and CPU-only fan for TDP <= 65watts.

                      ouch FAQ writer
                      Those are the manufacturer's suggestions for what CPUs to use.
                      The case itself does not have a TDP rating. The TDP rating is for a CPU.

                      The i3 is still rated for 73w TDP. If you want to go on mini-box's recommendations, you shouldn't use an i3 in the M350 case.
                      Personally, I think a well-planned system based on the i3 (and perhaps underclocked, as you suggested) could work pretty well. You'd have to have additional cooling in the case, probably more than the 40mm fan that the M350 provides room for.

                      I still wouldn't try powering it with an M3.
                      You'd be pushing the envelope more than I would feel comfortable doing.


                      Ouch, my a$$.
                      Have you looked in the FAQ yet?
                      How about the Wiki?



                      Under normal circumstances, a signature would go here.

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                      • #12
                        Seriously dude, this is just basic high school science. You need to post less and read more.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by dmiller View Post
                          Seriously dude, this is just basic high school science. You need to post less and read more.
                          Like reading the article from Tom's where you got your graph?
                          The same article that points these facts out:

                          Since these workloads tax two processing cores, the Core i3 requires more power on average. The Atom D510 also jumps over the 30W mark.

                          If we look at the total power required to complete the multi-threaded workload test, i3 handily wins. It only required a quarter of the power that an Atom 230 needed to finish the job.
                          The average power required during the efficiency test was almost twice as high on the Core i3 than on the Atom D510.

                          More advanced high school science: Efficiency is the amount of power used over time.
                          The Core i3 uses more power, but it's more efficient because the extra computing power can accomplish tasks faster.

                          Now let's relate this to the car, specifically to choosing a power supply.
                          The PSU doesn't care how efficient the CPU is. The PSU needs to whatever power the system requires at any given moment. The more power the CPU draws, the more powerful PSU you will need.

                          With a Core i3, I wouldn't consider the M3 a wise choice. According to the manual, the M3 provides anywhere from 4-5A on the 12v rail, depending on the input voltage (your car battery).
                          4A X 12V = 48W
                          5A X 12V = 60W

                          Even if you are able to supply a constant current to the M3 that would enable it to output the full 60W on the 12V rail, it's not enough to power the Core i3.

                          60 < 73
                          That's some basic junior high math.

                          Now, before you try to act like a hot-shot and accuse people of not reading , I suggest you do some research yourself.
                          Have you looked in the FAQ yet?
                          How about the Wiki?



                          Under normal circumstances, a signature would go here.

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                          • #14
                            I didn't recommend a power supply. I've used both the 2150 and the M3 with this board and an i5. The M3 is workable under certain conditions. Obviously a 1156 board can be used with the M350. Obviously the i3/5 use less watt hours and produce less heat doing the same work. The thermal design is different between the atom and the i3/5 if the core i isn't going to be throttled back.
                            High peak power just needs to be considered in the design. A low efficiency, low peak power industrial computer like the atom is fine for an appliance, but is not much of a general purpose computer anymore. It has no benefit it better vehicle electrical usage since the i3/5 arrived.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by dmiller View Post
                              A low efficiency, low peak power industrial computer like the atom is fine for an appliance, but is not much of a general purpose computer anymore. It has no benefit it better vehicle electrical usage since the i3/5 arrived.
                              i completely disagree. my family uses a atom motherboard as a home computer, and it appears to work just as fast as the amd-celeron-equivelent that it replaced-- ie, it does music, email, itunes syncing, and web, and it would do it flawlessly if my family could keep from downloading those random software packages (i have no doubt they could get a i7 system to slow to a crawl with the same practices...)

                              i also tried using the same atom in the car, and it worked great as a carpc. it did everything i asked of it until i threw my processor-heavy audio processing at it... and i do not fault it at all for this-- i consider it like trying to get a old car to corner as well as a new corvette... it just simply could not handle the realtime audio that it wasn't originally designed to handle...go figure..

                              but i would never call the atom a processor that is only good for industrial tasks. devices like the sheevaplug are industrial pc's...
                              My OLD 2001 Mitsubishi Eclipse GT:
                              "The Project That Never Ended, until it did"


                              next project? subaru brz
                              carpc undecided

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