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Using M3-ATX for VIA EPIA N800-10E

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  • Using M3-ATX for VIA EPIA N800-10E

    Hi guys,

    I am planning to start a double-din pc project and get this mobo:

    http://www.e-itx.com/n800-10e.html

    I am thinking to deploy a M3-ATX for it. But since the mobo doesn't have a ATX connector (but a P4 12V), a gentleman at mini-box.com told me that I need to short PS_ON to turn the PSU on.

    So my question is if I short PS_ON permanently, does it mean the PSU will be always on? Can I still make use of the motherboard ON pulse in this case? If I really need to short PS_ON will it draw more current than it should even if my mono is turned off (when ignition off)?

    Any help is greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,
    -Ivan

  • #2
    Hey welcome to the forum! I think you would be better off using the DC-DC-USb power supply. http://store.mp3car.com/Intelligent_..._p/pwr-034.htm It will turn on with ignition and also send the pulse to mainboard for power up. Very simple solution and you don't short mainboard permently you only short for a touch that is what the pulse is, you can tie into the jumper wire from power supply to mainboard and add another momentary switch (normally open) if you want some extra control up front . Hope this helps and keep us posted with a worklog on your project SNO

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks for your reply SNO. DC-DC USB does look like a better choice for my project. I have 3 questions:

      1. Looking at the mechanical drawing, looks like it will fit to the bybyte nano itx case. Anyone has experience that it won't fit or hard to fit?
      2. The max current of 12V is 8A. Does it sound enough to drive -both- my mobo and lilliput 669 HB?
      3. I am thinking the Vaux may be used to turn on a 12V relay for my amp. So I can script it and add a delay before Vaux goes high correct? I am reading the advanced configuration manual and I guess it should be doable. Just want to confirm whether there's any practical issue.

      Thanks,
      -Ivan

      Comment


      • #4
        So from the operating guide of N800:

        http://resources.e-itx.com/via-epia-...A-N800_100.pdf

        and the following page about 669HB:

        http://www.lilliputlcd.com/2011/02/26/hello-world/

        it seems like the total current would be around 1.925 + 0.65 ~= 2.6A. I think there's a pretty safe margin if I want to drive them both using the 12V rail from DC-DC USB?

        Comment


        • #5
          Yes you should have plenty of power, it's not really big in size and should fit somehow into that case. Glad I was some help. SNO

          Comment


          • #6
            Awesome. Thanks for your information SNO. My mono will arrive by this week, and I will place an order of the PSU after confirming linux is happy with the mono.

            Comment


            • #7
              DCDC-USB-200 "Anti-Thump" Amplifier remote control setup

              Hi Ivanwyc,

              did you succeed to connect DCDC-USB-200 to your mainboard,

              I have the same problem like you : as I have a thin mini-itx Intel chipset motherboard, which I want to use for a car pc project.
              This motherboard has a DC connector for 12V or 19V settable through jumpers.

              I decided to use for it as power supply the same board as you DCDC-USB-200.

              Could you please indicate me if this board has a setting option for an "Anti-Thump" Amplifier remote control, in order to connect to my car amplifier, I saw also in the advanced users manual that there is a VAUX which can be programmed - do you think th can be used as an "Anti-Thump" Amplifier remote control in order o avoid the big pop noise when the carpc starts?

              Thanks very much

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi esilviu,

                I had a similar question and found this thread:

                http://www.mp3car.com/car-audio/1457...-question.html

                According to the comment by Curiosity, Vaux will do it. I haven't tested it yet: I just got my DCDC USB a couple days ago and don't have access to any Windows box. The linux utility doesn't look as comprehensive as the one for Windows, so I can't test it until I find a Windows machine. I will try to do it over the weekend.

                Thanks,
                -Ivan

                Comment


                • #9
                  esilviu, so I have played with my DCDC USB today. It's true that Vaux can be programmed to start with a delay. But it's only possible in script mode. In script mode, ignition is a hard on/off switch of the PSU, which means when ignition goes low, Vout and Vaux will be out immediately. We don't have the off-delay and hard-off as we do in automotive mode. I didn't test PWR because there's no meaning of it when Vout is out immediately after ignition goes low.

                  However there's one unknown automotive setting in the "Settings" section: "Automotive Mode: Thump timeout". And the description is "THUMP timeout, switching off the audio amplifier during motherboard startup/shutdown":

                  Click image for larger version

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                  This is undocumented in both the basic and advanced manual. I suspect it's one of the pins near the state LED. But again, it's not documented. Does anybody have an idea? I may want to send en enquiry to mini-box since they have 30 days support.

                  Having said that, I found an amp on ebay and looks like it doesn't need the anti-thump thing?

                  Code:
                  http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-12V-TDA7850-Car-Amplifier-Digital-AMP-4-channel-BA3121-Denoiser-ACC-Control-/390691050107
                  Note: "Delay function,no need to add speaker protection"

                  I don't really understand what does that mean, but it sounds quite interesting to me. Does anybody have an idea?

                  Thanks,
                  -Ivan
                  Last edited by ivanwyc; 11-24-2013, 07:14 PM. Reason: The ebay rover link doesn't work… put it in a code tag instead

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Yes I read the comments on the link you provided , and Curiosity confirmed it should work with the help of a relay or 2 resistors and a transistor similar with the explanations in the pdf from the next link: http://www.mpegbox.com/microsdc/usdc20d_AuxOC.pdf , also Robert confirmed in the comments on the link: http://www.mp3car.com/power-supplies...-200-info.html
                    Please let us know your testing results and impressions on this PSU, also am interested if this PSU is introducing some noises (interference) in your sound system, especially if your radio still has good reception after your carpc starts with this PSU. Robert had only good experience with this PSU, powering its carpc
                    Thanks very much,

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Update: So I have ordered the TDA7580 I posted in my last reply… let's see whether I will hear pop sound even if I don't do any anti-thumping...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hi Ivan,

                        I saw that it was a delay on my post also, due to moderators maybe;

                        Now it's clear that it supports anti thump function, though in your posted pic it's not in automotive mode is in dumb mode, is this window and settings applicable in the automotive mode also?

                        I asked the same question to the mini-box support, and they responded with a lot of delay , I will post their reply here tomorrow as I have it on my office email.

                        Thanks very much,
                        Silviu
                        Last edited by esilviu; 11-26-2013, 01:46 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Quad7850_user_guide.pdf

                          Concerning the amp you found I think is similar to the one in the pic, and even if having pop noise suppression it is recommended to use an antithump wire together with a relay to delay its start-up. Please read the instructions in the attachment

                          Click image for larger version

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                          Comment


                          • #14
                            esilviu,

                            Yes it was in dumb mode when I captured the screenshot, but as you see in the picture the name of the setting is "Automotive Mode: Thump timeout" - clearly it is for Automotive Mode. I've done my bench tests in both automotive mode and script mode. Only dumb mode allows activation of the USB device without a active 12V input and it makes my screen shot taking from my desktop a little bit easier…

                            I am aware of Quad7850 from bybyte - I almost wanted to get one. The one (and many similar items) I found from ebay is very similar to Quad7850 that they both use the same 4 x 50 W MOSFET quad bridge power amplifier:

                            http://www.st.com/web/catalog/sense_...C1761/PF157947
                            http://www.st.com/st-web-ui/static/a...CD00145702.pdf (datasheet)

                            but those from ebay have a denoiser (BA3121) as well:

                            http://www.digikey.com/product-detai...3121-ND/658300
                            http://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data%20...BA3121_F_N.pdf (datasheet)

                            (Actually, they use one per 2 channels, and so two BA3121 per item)

                            You can checkout the schematic of it from one of the ebay postings, it's extremely clear and easy to understand:



                            I don't have a clear look at Quad7850, but I can't find any 8-DIP package from these pictures:

                            http://www.auctiva.com/hostedimages/...0,0,0&format=0

                            And as the document of Quad7850 suggests, it requires group loop isolation so it's quite unlikely it has BA3121 or any equivalent.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hi Ivan,

                              This is the answer I received from mini-box:

                              Dear Silviu,

                              Sorry for the delayed reply. You can use the Vaux (J10) connector as an anti-thump. Should you need other details, please contact us!

                              On Thu, 21 Nov 2013, [email protected] wrote:
                              > In other words , in the description of this DCDC-USB 200 is written :' Remote ON/OFF switch capable of switching up to 6A, 8A peak' - could this feature be used to remote on(enable) with a delay a car amplifier to avoid the big pop noise in the speakers when the carpc is started?
                              >
                              > Thanks very much in advance.
                              > Silviu
                              >
                              > -----Message d'origine-----
                              > De : Silviu Enache
                              > Envoyé : 21 noiembrie 2013 13:24
                              > À : 'Mini-Box.com Customer Support'
                              > Objet : RE: [Support- #NBK-43358-988] DCDC-USB-200
                              >
                              > Dear Cristi,
                              >
                              > I know about M3-ATX, it was my first choice , but as I said my
                              > motherboard is a thin mini itx with a jack DC 12V connection type, or
                              > M3-ATX has a 20 pin ATX connection
                              >
                              > For DCDC USB 200 I saw in the manual that it has 3 outputs VOUT, VAUX,
                              > PWS which can be programmed VOUT and PWS are clear for me , but VAUX what is this , could it be used as a delayed trigger 12v for the amplifier?
                              >
                              > Thanks very much in advance,
                              > Silviu
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > -----Message d'origine-----
                              > De : Mini-Box.com Customer Support
                              > [mailto:[email protected]]
                              > Envoyé : 21 noiembrie 2013 12:57
                              > À : Silviu Enache
                              > Objet : Re: [Support- #NBK-43358-988] DCDC-USB-200
                              >
                              > Dear Silviu,
                              >
                              > Thank you for contacting us and your interest in our products! The DCDC-USB-200 does not have an "anti-thump" connector but all the M series automotive power supplies have one. For example, you can check the M3-ATX.
                              > Should you need other technical details, please contact us!
                              >
                              > On Wed, 20 Nov 2013, [email protected] wrote:
                              > > Dear Support team,
                              > >
                              > > I have a thin mini-itx Intel chipset motherboard, which I want to use it for a car pc project.
                              > > This motherboard has a DC connector for 12V or 19V settable through jumpers.
                              > >
                              > > I decided to use for it as power supply your board DCDC-USB-200.
                              > >
                              > > Could you please indicate me if this board has a setting option for
                              > > an "Anti-Thump" Amplifier remote control, in order to connect to my
                              > > amplifier
                              > >
                              > > Thank you very much in advance
                              > >
                              > > Best Regards,
                              > > Silviu ENACHE
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > ________________________________
                              > > Before printing, please think about ENVIRONMENTAL responsibility!
                              >
                              >
                              > Best regards,
                              > Cristi Ciubotaru.


                              Best regards,
                              Cristi Ciubotaru.

                              Comment

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