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  • ITPS Regulation

    This week I got a fancy new power supply (HP 6542A), so I decided to do some testing on the ITPS from ituner.com (http://store.ituner.com/ituner/itps.html). There have been a lot of discussions around this regulator/shutdown controller, but I have not seen any extended measurements of the device.

    I tested it with no load and with low and high load. For load I used a standard 9003 automotive light bulb. Low load was both low and high beams connected in series which is about 3 amps at 12 volt (36 watts), and high load was only high beams which is about 5 amps at 12 volts (60 watts). I did not want to destroy my PC testing the voltage.

    Attached you can see a graph of the results.

    For reference my Epia 1000M consumes between 3.3 and 4.6 amps depending on the task in a CASETRONIC 2699R case with DC-DC power supply, 5400rpm HD, Wireless USB (from Microsoft) and no CD.

    As you can see from the graph the ITPS crank survival without a tank circuit is not going to happen without divine intervention. I have not been able to find any voltage range of the DC-DC power supply in the 2699R case, but if we assume 12 volts plus minus 10 percent, that should give us a range.

    We can see that we reach the critical voltage at about 13.1 volts at low load, but if you load up your PC with peripherals and power your LCD off it also and have the high load you need about 13.7 volts. If you take the 12.65 volt float voltage of a fully charged typical deep cycle battery that you might use in a tank circuit as a secondary battery, then you can see that you even need the motor running in order to use your PC safely.

    Something to think about.
    Attached Files

  • #2
    Good work. One thing to keep in mind is that the ITPS works wonderfully as a shutdown controller ONLY, bypassing the regulation. It is the most complete standalone shutdown controller available when used in this way.

    The regulator, however, is poorly suited for automotive use.

    Comment


    • #3
      NewTech,

      Great work!
      I have not been able to find any voltage range of the DC-DC power supply in the 2699R case, but if we assume 12 volts plus minus 10 percent, that should give us a range
      Looking at a picture of the PSU in the 2699R, it appears to be the same (or a slight modification of) the standard Casetronic or Morex PSU . The Casetronic web page FAQ says the input 12v tolerance is +/-5% (not 10%). This makes the ITPS regulator look ever worse!

      Thanks for the info.
      MikeH

      Comment


      • #4
        Good post NewTechFool.

        I wonder if they ever look at this kind of testing. Even a zero dropout linear regulator can cause problems.

        They even recommend adding a battery based tank with a diode...what are they thinking

        Comment


        • #5
          My ITPS works fine running a Morex 60W power supply even with the engine off. A extra battery isn't nessessary for everyone.
          Phillip Hullquist

          I entertain people through adventure movies.
          www.11visions.com

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by parawing742
            My ITPS works fine running a Morex 60W power supply even with the engine off. A extra battery isn't nessessary for everyone.
            but does it survive a crank? i think he was just saying you need the extra battery to survive the crank.

            also... do you have all laptop components? i suspect people with 12v drives will have issues running with the car off.
            My JeepPC Install

            "there are no stupid questions, just stupid people."

            "it's been agreed the whole world stinks so no one's taking showers anymore"

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by shakes
              but does it survive a crank? i think he was just saying you need the extra battery to survive the crank.

              also... do you have all laptop components? i suspect people with 12v drives will have issues running with the car off.
              No, it will reboot upon starting the engine. I use a 7200RPM desktop hard drive.
              Phillip Hullquist

              I entertain people through adventure movies.
              www.11visions.com

              Comment


              • #8
                I can't believe some of you guys still don't understand the ITPS. It is DESIGNED for an automotive application. Maybe it isn't right for your application for some reason but I have a feeling that most of the people who use the ITPS don't have many complaints with it's use in an automotive environment.

                The ITPS when used with the PW-70 powersupply and an Epia M motherboard will not drop out if the voltage drops below 12 volts. I've had this thing down to 10.5 volts and it didn't drop out. I can run my system for a long time without the motor running to boot. Of course you do have to stick with the components the ITPS is designed for...

                Keep in mind that the Epia motherboards don't use 12v (unless someone else can prove me wrong and I'm talking about just the board, not serial devices for the sake of keeping it simple). In this case the PW-70 doesn't need the 12 volts to safely get the 5 volts and 3.3 volts to power the motherboard. Also stick to laptop harddrives because they run off of the 5 volt rail and are better suited to rougher environments.

                As for crank survivability no it won't survive a crank but it isn't advertised as being able to do such a thing. That is what the small battery is for.

                Comment


                • #9
                  adamis ...

                  you are correct in what you say ... how the PC can run jsut fine using the ITPS with less than 12v with laptop components. it's all the guys with 12v components that have issues.

                  but it's not that people don't understand the ITPS ... it's simply that the ITPS has limitations and people are pointing those limitations out. If someone is planning on putting 12v components in their system they need to be aware of the issues they may face with the ITPS.

                  likewise ... no one ever said it would or should survive a crank .. nor has anyone said it's a poor product ... again we're just pointing out the fact that with the ITPS/PW-series setup you'll need an SLA or some form of tank. just trying to keep people from buying into something without understanding the limitations.

                  from what I hear the opus does survive a crank ... and it's a better supply in that you can make use of all 100w+ regulated (the ITPS limits you to 60w regulated) ... the opus, of course, has it's downfalls as well.

                  however the ITPS/PW combo will save you about $60 so it's a much better solution for some (myself included) despite it's limitations.

                  and as you've said, these limitations aren't a problem if you have the right components in your system.

                  just be careful ... cause a lot of these guys DO understand the ITPS and are just looking out for those who don't.
                  My JeepPC Install

                  "there are no stupid questions, just stupid people."

                  "it's been agreed the whole world stinks so no one's taking showers anymore"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Alright, in that respect I understand and I agree the facts should be represented so others know what they are getting into before they buy it. I would like to add however that if you don't own or have used an ITPS before then you should be cautious in making statements regarding the product.

                    I also want to correct the statement that you need your car running in order for the ITPS to run. The facts are (and if the guy tested it, I'm not sure why he made the statement) I have had the voltage down to almost 10.5 volts while running my computer and didn't have a problem, and I can't be the only person. People need to know that his statement is inconsistent with other people's experience. Maybe it cut out on him but this could be as simple as a bad wiring job or dirty terminals.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Adamis,

                      You said the right combination of component must be used for the ITPS to work, no 12V devices...ok thats fine. Thats exactly how my setup is.

                      You also said the regulator is for car use, true as along as you dont use the 12V supply.

                      Now tell something...what the heck is the LM1084 doing in that ITPS when the whole setup cannot work as soon as you put a 12V device, when the supposed to be 12V is well below this during normal operations?


                      All "NewTechFool" is doing is showing us how the ITPS behave during loading at different voltages. Its up to those poeple in here to decide if this is suitable for them or not. We should be thankful he even bother to post for all to see. But as you can already see it the 12V supply is out of spec. This out of spec 12V supply may work for some and thats probably because they are lucky, how reliable is it? what if you have a bad battery?

                      The LM1084 regulator was there for a reason...but for what reason when it cant be used with any 12V device unless your car is supplying 13.8V atleast. The ITPS designer must be somehow wishing the 12V supply will work in the car. But as you and others already proved and said it just simply wont work properly.

                      From your recomendation you are basically saying the ITPS should only be used as a shutdown controller. Might as well bypass the regulator in this case to reduce heat. The ITPS might as well be redesigned as a shutdown controller only...the ITPS should cost even less now.

                      True I may not own an ITPS but I know more than enough about it to make a comment...probably know more than most poeple in here in a very technical way. Like what "shakes" said we are not trying to put down the products. We are just naturally interested in such subject and post our finding for others to decide whats its limitations are...wishing we can put all our findings together and put the issue to rest.

                      The point some guys are making is...the regulator part of the ITPS is useless...said in a technical way...as "none" said so too in a short word. I dont know if you done any testing as "NewTechFool" but I do appreciate his post. It may not be 100% accurate in what he said but if you think that is then just correct him. After all we are here to help each other out.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        These finding should go in the newbies FAQ sections soon so we dont keep going around in the circle.

                        Just like the CAP vs BAT tank circuits discussion with "shakes", "none", me and others

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Ricky327
                          These finding should go in the newbies FAQ sections soon so we dont keep going around in the circle.
                          indeed. it should also be noted in the faq that the ITPS will limit you to 60W. that's what most newbs don't understand ... they think as long as they have a PW-70a they'll have 100w+ to play with ... and that simply ain't so

                          Originally posted by Ricky327
                          Just like the CAP vs BAT tank circuits discussion with "shakes", "none", me and others
                          ha!
                          My JeepPC Install

                          "there are no stupid questions, just stupid people."

                          "it's been agreed the whole world stinks so no one's taking showers anymore"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            If I recalled correctly when I talked with the company that produces the ITPS and the PW powersupplies I was told that the PW-70 was limited to the 60 watts and the PW-70A is 100 watts, at least that's what I understood what they said about the power supplies. Perhaps an e-mail to Ituner could clear this one up...

                            Second the ITPS as designed and if used with the recommended equipment will not have problems. If you are buying a product it is important to read all of the information you can on it including forums and threads like this.

                            Ituner recommends using laptop components for power consumption as well as power issues. The advantage to running an ITPS and a PW-70 power supply is the savings in space. My whole setup fits into a double din case. I couldn't do this with a desktop harddrive so I used a laptop harddrive and as a result the ITPS and PW-70 work in my situation. I am aware that not everyone's situation and needed space requirements are like my own situation.

                            It is also important to inform people who perhaps are considering useing the 12volt rail for a harddrive that desktop harddrives are not designed for mobile environments and thus might not take the abuse that a laptop harddrive is built to withstand. Also running a 12volt item such as a desktop harddrive with the ITPS is probably playing the odds and I wouldn't try it so if that's what you plan then stay away from the ITPS and PW-70 power supplies.

                            My point here is that if a newbie comes along and reads the claim that the ITPS is not good for automotive use while not qualifying the statement or explaining with what components this holds true to could be taking a viable and cost effective solution for that newbie away. That is what my concern is about.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by adamis
                              If I recalled correctly when I talked with the company that produces the ITPS and the PW powersupplies I was told that the PW-70 was limited to the 60 watts and the PW-70A is 100 watts, at least that's what I understood what they said about the power supplies. Perhaps an e-mail to Ituner could clear this one up...
                              This is correct. However the LM1084 Regulator the ITPS uses maxes 5a at 12v so even with the PW-70a you can only get 60w to your system if you use the regulator on the ITPS.

                              I'm starting to think myself of bypassing the regulator on the ITPS. Even though mini-box says the M10000 doesn't use 12v if you don't have any such components it still makes me a little uneasy.

                              But I'd like to run a powered USB hub off my PS so I don't have to use another regulator ... my system currently runs around 3-4a and i'm afraid the USB hub may take me over the 5a max of the ITPS.

                              eh ... i need to do some more measurements and see what hub i decide to use. I'm really thinking about going unregulated tho.
                              My JeepPC Install

                              "there are no stupid questions, just stupid people."

                              "it's been agreed the whole world stinks so no one's taking showers anymore"

                              Comment

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