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  • getting an odd motherboard to power on

    After lurking in the dark reading the forums intently...I have progressed far enough in my project to need outside assistance.

    The suspect: The motherboard from a "Scovery 211" if anyone remembers them. It is LPX form factor. The only info on it I have been able to find is here: (beware it is not in english) http://www.fsc-pc.de/support/drvupload.asp?DRV=15380

    The motherboard has standard AT connectors (P8 & P9) that connect to the motherbard from the power supply. But there is another mystery connector, labeled P13, I doubt it is really a P13 connector because it only has 3 wires, red (+5) white (+5) and ground.

    If I try to run the computer off the original power supply, it will not power on without this P13 connector plugged in.

    The computer has what I consider a "soft" power on switch. The power button is a small button that plugs into motherboard.

    If I use the original power supply and ONLY plug in this P13 connector, pressing the power button will cause the fan in the powersupply to turn on for a second, then it turns off. With the P8 and P9 plugged in the whole shabang starts right up.

    So how can I get this thing to start up with my ACE-865. The original power supply gave a "power good" signal of +5V. So I took a +5V from one on the molex connectors of the ACE-865 and plugged it into pin 1 of P8 (power good)

    With just P8 and P9 from ACE-865 the comp won't turn on. If I add the P13 from the original supply, still won't turn on.

    (yes my ACE-865 is working...i am running it off the +12V of an old ac-dc powersupply)

    Thanks SO much for any help!

    Nate Delage

  • #2
    the ACE-865, that's an AT power supply?

    Have you tried to plug in the ACE-865 properly (P8 and P9) and then use the P13 from the old power supply and see if the computer will power on?

    Have you tried to connect the ACE-865 with P8 and P9 and then use the +5 from a molex for the P13? I'm not understanding exactly what you tried or if you tried this yet.
    IN DEVELOPMENT -- '96 Mustang, lilliput with PII/450 laptop, custom DC-DC power supply, 60GB; Garmin GPS; 802.11g; compact keyboard, small graphical LCDs, OBDII.

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    • #3
      Yes the ACE-865 is an AT supply (its the arise unit that most people are using)

      With just P8 and P9 from ACE-865 the comp won't turn on. If I add the P13 from the original supply, still won't turn on.

      What I worry is that there is some sort of communication between the original power supply and the motherboard. I think this because with only the P13 plugged in from the original power supply pressing the power button on the computer makes the fan on the original power supply turn on for a second.

      I don't think taking 5V from the Arise to make up for the power from the P13 will work but I can try...

      Thanks

      Comment


      • #4
        Lemmy get this straight:

        you took the P8 and P9 from the 865 and plugged them into the mobo, then the P13 from the original power supply and plugged that in too, and it didn't work?

        Try plugging a hard drive into the orig power supply and do that exact setup again. Most power supplies won't turn on unless there's something drawing current.

        You might need to do the same thing with the 865.

        Try that and see if it works. I'd be pretty surprised if it doesn't. I can understand the orig power supply not turning on if there is no drain on it, but if there is and it still won't turn on then those connectors aren't real P8 and P9, and if they are labeled P8 and P9 I would think that they would be the same as normal connectors, otherwise why bother labeling them that way?
        IN DEVELOPMENT -- '96 Mustang, lilliput with PII/450 laptop, custom DC-DC power supply, 60GB; Garmin GPS; 802.11g; compact keyboard, small graphical LCDs, OBDII.

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        • #5
          OK I think I am confusing everyone....

          The motherboard is odd. AT connectors, yet it has a soft power switch (wired to the motherboard) and a standby option in the bios.

          Power connections:
          P8, P9 with power good at +5V
          3 pin connector with +5V(seems to be a standby power), ground and a white wire that is +5V when computer is on, and 0V when computer is off (all measured with orginal power supply)

          If I connect P8 and P9 from arise unit and connect +5V and ground to the mysterious 3 pin connector, the fan for the cpu that plugs into the motherboard goes on, but I see no video on the monitor.

          If I connect P8 and P9 from arise, and the 3 pin connector from the orignal power supply, cpu fan on, but no video. (I did give the original power supply a load with two hard drives so it stays on)

          With just P8 and P9 from arise, cpu fan goes on, but no video.

          Could the computer be on, but just not displaying an image on the monitor??

          Nate

          Comment


          • #6
            after all this fooling around, does it still work with the original power supply now?

            And are you absolutely certain that you measured the voltages correctly? measure them again when the motherboard has actually powered on.

            are you absolutely certain that the P8 and P9 connectors *are*, in fact, standard P8 and P9 connectors?
            IN DEVELOPMENT -- '96 Mustang, lilliput with PII/450 laptop, custom DC-DC power supply, 60GB; Garmin GPS; 802.11g; compact keyboard, small graphical LCDs, OBDII.

            Comment


            • #7
              thanks for the help so far.....

              yes, i am absolutly sure that the P8 and P9 are "normal" P8 and P9 connectors...I just checked all the voltages.

              Ack! this is very frustrating....any more ideas?? I am very willing to try any ideas. (the computer still powers on with the original power supply!

              Nate

              Comment


              • #8
                The only interesting thing I have found is that with the P8 and P9 of the ACE-865 not plugged in the 12V supply off a molex from the ACE-865 is about 12V, with the P8 and P9 plugged in the motherboard the 12V from a molex is actually more like 14V. I doubt it matters that much, but I am trying to find SOMETHING to explain this darn behavior...

                ack!

                Comment


                • #9
                  OK I got it running...but it is not pretty at all!!!

                  How it works right now:

                  I am the +12V from the AC-DC power supply to run the motherboard instead of the ACE-865 unit (the +14V was bothering me, see previous post)

                  If I plug the P13 (that three pin connector) from the original power supply to the motherboard, and the P8 and P9 from the ACE-865 the computer doesn't start. But if I now disconnect (with everything still on) the 3pin connector (P13) from the motherboard that was coming from the original supply and wire a +5V and ground to the P13 on the mother board from the ACE-865 then press the power button it turns on.

                  Sorry this is so confusing but...well it is.

                  The P13 I keep mentioning is a 3pin connector to the motherboard:

                  ----| Red +5V (always on)
                  ----| White +5V with comp off 0V with comp on
                  ----| Black ground

                  The above were measured with the orignal power supply.


                  IN SHORT: (to turn on the computer with ACE-865)

                  1. Plug in P13 from orginal power supply to motherboard.
                  2. Plug P8 and P9 from ACE-865 to motherboard.
                  3. Turn on power to ace-865.
                  4. Press "on" button on motherboard.
                  5. Unplug P13 connector.
                  6. Plug in my own "P13" connector to motherboard, that only has a +5V and a ground (coming from the ACE-865)
                  7. We are now only connected to the ACE-865. Press power button again.

                  I think there is some funny business (things I don't understand) going on with this white wire on the P13. Some how it is telling the computer to turn on?!!?

                  Now the system starts. Weird hu?

                  How can I get rid of this odd requirement of still using the original power supply to start the computer??


                  much thanks to the people who take time to read and understand all this...
                  Nate

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    do you have another normal motherboard lying around? I wonder, if you plug in the P8 P9 from the 865, and the P13 from the original, and then plug the P8 P9 from the original into a *second* motherboard (thus having all main power connectors occupied), will the computer turn on the first time then?

                    If what you are saying is the only way (which I somehow doubt it is ) that would indicate that the motherboard is somehow remembering that it was once told to power on. Can you check the voltages on the P13 connector while you try to turn the computer on? see if anything changes?

                    So if you do this:

                    1- connect P8 P9 from 865
                    2- connect P13 from original
                    3- press power on

                    the computer will *not* power on, but if you

                    4- remove P13 and replace with P13-kludge from 865
                    5- press power on

                    then it will power on?

                    if you remove the P8 and P9, wait 5 seconds, and then plug them back in again (in between steps 3 and 4), will it work?

                    and if you have your P13 in there the whole time (thus not using the other power supply at all), it won't work at all?

                    Do you have a digital camera by any chance?

                    here are some links that might be of use:

                    http://www.ltsp.org/pipermail/discus...er/002769.html
                    siemens sell(ed) them
                    there's an email link on this one!
                    software bios update 05/20/99
                    some other dude who has a scovery 211 as of Nov/2000

                    anyways that's about all the time I'm gonna spend on it Google is your friend.

                    There's a few email addresses there, and you can always phone Siemens up and speak to their tech support department, or just email them asking about product information.

                    Happy hunting!
                    IN DEVELOPMENT -- '96 Mustang, lilliput with PII/450 laptop, custom DC-DC power supply, 60GB; Garmin GPS; 802.11g; compact keyboard, small graphical LCDs, OBDII.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Son-of-a-

                      I'm real lucky that I was able to post that. @#$(*@#$ing stupid BB software didn't like one of the links that I had posted, so it just said "too bad, hit back button to retry", unfortunately there is THIS tag in the page:

                      <META HTTP-EQUIV="Pragma" CONTENT="no-cache">


                      THUS, it will not cache, THUS you've just lost everything that you've typed. Thanks a lot UBB!

                      Fortunately I am not easy to defeat, and with a RAM hex editor I pried the information out of IE's cold dead grip and reposted it!

                      Sorry if this was OT, but had to say something after I successfully recovered it!
                      IN DEVELOPMENT -- '96 Mustang, lilliput with PII/450 laptop, custom DC-DC power supply, 60GB; Garmin GPS; 802.11g; compact keyboard, small graphical LCDs, OBDII.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        This might not help, but I had a similar problem. First try to power you arise with a car battery and see if it will post. I hade an old AT PSU that I was using to power my Arise but the only way to get it to work was to plug the old AT PSU into an old motherboard. After doing that it would power up my arise.
                        Jeff Seifert
                        Work in progress!!!!! Website is on its way!!!!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          OK to clear up this little P13 connector business:

                          With original supply:

                          Red: always +5V
                          White: with computer off, +5V, with computer on 0V
                          Ground: well its ground...

                          This white wire is the only one that ever changes. All the P8 and P9 wires are all normal voltages no matter what. This white wire seems to turn on the original power supply somehow. But I don't know how to reproduce it because not connected to anything (power supply by it self, just plugged into wall) the red and white both are +5V. I don't understand how the motherboard can change this +5V if it is coming from the power supply...not the motherboard.

                          The power button connects to the [B}motherboard[/B]. It is a button and is only "on" for an instance...it is not a switch.

                          I just need some help understanding how the motherboard decides to turn on.

                          Telek, thanks for all your help. I have emailed Siemens asking for information. I'll keep you all updated if I solve the situation..so some poor soul doesn't have to go through this....

                          jssaggie, the problem is not getting my AC-DC AT supply to turn on...just the motherboard.

                          Again thanks for all the help. I'll try some new ideas once I get off from work.

                          Nate

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            ofr the P13, what happens when the computer decides to power off, does it change again?

                            It would be quite easy for the motherboard to just connect the +5 and the ground, and that would signal the power supply to power-on. perhaps when 5V is fed back into the white wire it'll power off again, I dunno. That's about all that I can think of.
                            IN DEVELOPMENT -- '96 Mustang, lilliput with PII/450 laptop, custom DC-DC power supply, 60GB; Garmin GPS; 802.11g; compact keyboard, small graphical LCDs, OBDII.

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