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OSDash Genesis Thread - Was: OpenVIS - The Open Vehicle Infotainment Service

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  • OSDash Genesis Thread - Was: OpenVIS - The Open Vehicle Infotainment Service

    About a year ago I started a project on sourceforge called OpenIVI. Its objectives were to provide a number of webservices and client software for integrating the car with the cloud. This web service was to be pluggable and open so that you could run it on your home server, your carpc itself, or bigger institutions such as mp3car could run it to provide features to their users.

    These web services/client would be developed using crossplatform C#/ASP.NET code and provide services like tracking, crowd sourced traffic, and many other possible services. It would be pluggable so platform specific components could also use the cloud for things.

    The project got a code commit, but I'm involved in too many other things to have time to develop it myself. This would be a cross-frontend/cross-platform effort so why not open up development to the entire community?

    Bugbyte and I threw together some ideas and I'm hoping to get even more ideas and excitement around this project.

    I won't do this all by myself, so if you are interested in helping out with this effort, sound off, otherwise the idea will likely die.

    OpenIVI agenda:
    - Define plugin architecture
    - Define useful services to start out with
    - Write core server and web frontend
    - Write client software service to run on hardware.
    - Establish a test server.
    - Get Frontends to use it.

    We need C#, ASP.NET, and web developers to jump on board. I think the client plugins that integrate with the frontends will either come from the frontend authors themselves or loyal users.

    ---------------------------------------
    Edit by Bugbyte 12/21/2009: This is the genesis thread for the OSDash project. It has been moved to the OSDash forum now that a more formal effort to realize the vision has been started.
    Former author of LinuxICE, nghost, nobdy.
    Current author of Automotive Message Broker (AMB).
    Works on Tizen IVI. Does not represent anyone or anything but himself.

  • #2
    Kev, I'm having a conversation with mp3car on Monday about putting some resources behind this.

    I'm onboard for sure. I'd like to try and get more people interested in cloud computing and applications for the car.
    Originally posted by ghettocruzer
    I was gung ho on building a PC [until] just recently. However, between my new phone having internet and GPS and all...and this kit...Im starting to have trouble justfiying it haha.
    Want to:
    -Find out about the new iBug iPad install?
    -Find out about carPC's in just 5 minutes? View the Car PC 101 video

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    • #3
      It sounds like it could be interesting....i'll hold judgement until I see what type of services your planning on offering. Most useful data specifically disallows anything other then end-user use. So I guess thats a maybe from me.
      openMobile - An open source C# Front End (why choose openMobile?)
      - Always Recruiting Developers -
      Like what you see? Donations are always welcome

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      • #4
        Services off the top of my head:

        * OBDII statistics upload (requires some sort of user account)
        * Crowd source traffic (anonymous and user)
        * Weather, ie provided by government sites can be used
        * Car settings/user preferences
        * Playlist management
        * Media sync'ing
        * Calendar/Contacts

        I'm sure if I spent some more time I can think of a bunch more that would be useful. I'm sure others have better ideas.
        Former author of LinuxICE, nghost, nobdy.
        Current author of Automotive Message Broker (AMB).
        Works on Tizen IVI. Does not represent anyone or anything but himself.

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        • #5
          media and playlist syncing could be a big one... and add a send address to car service (like bmw and a few others can do right from google maps). User settings could be cool too especially if tied to your phones bluetooth address. You get in a car, and it can grab your favorite radio stations or even start playing the last song you were listening to.

          my question with some of the others is why choose the mp3car calendar service over google calendar? or its weather over the weather.com rss feed? or traffic generated by half a dozen mp3car users over yahoo traffic?

          Not trying to be pessimistic just asking questions most people will ask when you present the services.
          openMobile - An open source C# Front End (why choose openMobile?)
          - Always Recruiting Developers -
          Like what you see? Donations are always welcome

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          • #6
            Originally posted by justchat_1 View Post
            my question with some of the others is why choose the mp3car calendar service over google calendar? or its weather over the weather.com rss feed? or traffic generated by half a dozen mp3car users over yahoo traffic?
            It's hard to say precisely why you might choose one over the other. Maybe support for one is discontinued or someone comes up with better features for another. What's important for me is that you can pick and choose one or the other and it will just work.
            Originally posted by ghettocruzer
            I was gung ho on building a PC [until] just recently. However, between my new phone having internet and GPS and all...and this kit...Im starting to have trouble justfiying it haha.
            Want to:
            -Find out about the new iBug iPad install?
            -Find out about carPC's in just 5 minutes? View the Car PC 101 video

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by justchat_1 View Post
              my question with some of the others is why choose the mp3car calendar service over google calendar? or its weather over the weather.com rss feed? or traffic generated by half a dozen mp3car users over yahoo traffic?
              Well, who says the client can't have a plugin that talks directly to google calendar? Also Bugbyte is right, say google starts charging for caledar service, or they drop it altogether. On the server, we drop the google calendar plugin and use another service. All the clients running on 100+ machines don't have to be changed at all. For this reason, it'd be useful to have a generic interface of services, and separate out the backends. Also consider locality into the equation. Traffic service X may not provide traffic for Switzerland. In which case you'd use plugin B which does hook up with the right service for the locality.
              Former author of LinuxICE, nghost, nobdy.
              Current author of Automotive Message Broker (AMB).
              Works on Tizen IVI. Does not represent anyone or anything but himself.

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              • #8
                Well none of those services are going to be paid only anytime soon but the point about easy transitioning is a good one. All i'm saying is concentrate on the services with the most user benefit first and then re-invent the wheel.

                Traffic service is going to be incredibly difficult to get reliable data for. Now i'm assuming your referring to statistical (aka historical) traffic and not live traffic. In order to pull that off you need two things which don't exist in the carpc world yet, standardized location data (maps) and a large enough userbase to get valid data. Even assuming you break road segments by intersection and use fuzzy matching, you violate terms of use for the maps.
                openMobile - An open source C# Front End (why choose openMobile?)
                - Always Recruiting Developers -
                Like what you see? Donations are always welcome

                Comment


                • #9
                  3 words: OpenStreetMaps. You are right though, it'll be not entirely useful until large numbers of people use it. I don't expect this project's success overnight. If it takes a couple years to become really useful, that's okay with me. I realize that none of this will be very useful to the 90% of carpc users. But if the trend continues, it'll be very relevant very soon.

                  I agree, focus on what's most useful at first.

                  I'd be great to have another c# dev on board besides myself.
                  Former author of LinuxICE, nghost, nobdy.
                  Current author of Automotive Message Broker (AMB).
                  Works on Tizen IVI. Does not represent anyone or anything but himself.

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                  • #10
                    This is exactly what i have been waiting for - I have resources to apply to this, both financial and human.
                    Suggestions or Comments on the forums? Post here.

                    mp3Car store order questions or products that you would like to sell on the store? Email store @ mp3car.com

                    Feel free to pm me if you:
                    • Have a general comment on mp3Car's products or services
                    • Have a product you would like to have tested by the mp3Car community
                    • Have a file you would like mp3Car to host
                    • Have a cool idea that would improve the forums

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by kev000 View Post
                      3 words: OpenStreetMaps. You are right though, it'll be not entirely useful until large numbers of people use it. I don't expect this project's success overnight. If it takes a couple years to become really useful, that's okay with me. I realize that none of this will be very useful to the 90% of carpc users. But if the trend continues, it'll be very relevant very soon.

                      I agree, focus on what's most useful at first.

                      I'd be great to have another c# dev on board besides myself.
                      If we can slowly chip away at the map issue - over time we will have something that will be use full to all.
                      Suggestions or Comments on the forums? Post here.

                      mp3Car store order questions or products that you would like to sell on the store? Email store @ mp3car.com

                      Feel free to pm me if you:
                      • Have a general comment on mp3Car's products or services
                      • Have a product you would like to have tested by the mp3Car community
                      • Have a file you would like mp3Car to host
                      • Have a cool idea that would improve the forums

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I wasn't implying long term it won't work....i was referring to short term. Very few users will be using navit until it can actually function somewhat reliably which i'm sad to say doesn't look like anytime soon. I'm trying to think of some creative solution to get something going before that, using any kind of gps software, without infringing on their terms of use. Maybe using intersections to trigger segment changes and then using a random gps cordinate between the two? it would avoid transmitting their map data but then the question is how well do streets from teleatlas or navteq line up with open street maps?
                        openMobile - An open source C# Front End (why choose openMobile?)
                        - Always Recruiting Developers -
                        Like what you see? Donations are always welcome

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by justchat_1 View Post
                          I wasn't implying long term it won't work....i was referring to short term. Very few users will be using navit until it can actually function somewhat reliably which i'm sad to say doesn't look like anytime soon. I'm trying to think of some creative solution to get something going before that, using any kind of gps software, without infringing on their terms of use. Maybe using intersections to trigger segment changes and then using a random gps cordinate between the two? it would avoid transmitting their map data but then the question is how well do streets from teleatlas or navteq line up with open street maps?
                          OSM maps and navteq maps should align up near perfectly. Most maps share common ancestry at least in the US (Government TIGER data) and they should be as accurate as the GPS system itself. The server only really cares about the coordinate and the speed. The server can either reverse geocode the coordinates into human readable addresses and return a list of "trouble areas" and the user can view it as a feed, or it can return a raw list of coordinates and its speed and have the navigation client worry about reverse geocoding and applying distortion to routes etc. I know navit can do this (allbeit in a not so user friendly way yet), that'd be cool if other navigation apps could take advantage of the data as well. Maybe if we build it, they will?

                          This is an implementation detail that we can worry about later. Right now we need to figure out what kind of resources we have and come up with a basic architecture. I'll try to come up with some documentation tonight on how it should all work. Then we can start putting some code down.
                          Former author of LinuxICE, nghost, nobdy.
                          Current author of Automotive Message Broker (AMB).
                          Works on Tizen IVI. Does not represent anyone or anything but himself.

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                          • #14
                            Yea thats true..then in that case we can make this nav system independent. Each client takes average speed per segment, picks a random gps cordinate along the segment and then submits the two (without any copyright map info being transmitted). The server should reverse geocode the point into a street segment using osm (aka i-95 between exit 5 and 6) and then submit that to the storage database. I would say start by tracking 3 hour blocks per segment and as the project grows that can be shrunk.

                            Yea documentation sounds good...probably some easy xml coms? Only question I had was how should we handle user authentication? That should probably be part of the basic architecture.

                            oh and side note: we should have the openOBD project web interface online in a day or two so you can add vin and dtc lookup to the list of services
                            openMobile - An open source C# Front End (why choose openMobile?)
                            - Always Recruiting Developers -
                            Like what you see? Donations are always welcome

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Okay, so I've worked a little bit on doing some high level architecture of the system. What's cool about this, and what should get every FE author excited and involved is this creates a unified plugin architecture for all frontends. That means plugins written to interface with the cloud on RR will work on nGhost etc.

                              The Client:

                              The client will be a thin .NET assembly (in c#) that basically does plugin management and provides interfaces to the FE specific code that will use the assembly. The plugins interface with different servers. One plugin (ie. plugin "A") could goto the OpenIVI server for traffic. While another plugin could go directly to google for the traffic data. It's up to the user to select which plugin he prefers to use.

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                              The FE specific integration would be something like a service daemon for LinuxICE that exports the interfaces over dbus for other apps to consume. Or it could be a RR plugin.

                              The Server

                              The server will be a collection of individual web services on the front, and database and user account interfacing on the back. For user account management, the simplest and most secure approach is to integrate with vbulletin (in the case of mp3car) or drupal/joomla/random CMS. That way the user, who already has an account, can use the existing account management and security features of the existing content management system. User account interfacing will be very site specific, but there is no reason why OpenIVI can't provide a plugin to interface with a few of the more common ones.

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                              The server is going to take more thought on it's implementation, but this will suffice for now: It should provide an interface to multiple plugin-based-backends. That way site implementations can choose at will to swap out backends with other backends that better meet their requirements.
                              Former author of LinuxICE, nghost, nobdy.
                              Current author of Automotive Message Broker (AMB).
                              Works on Tizen IVI. Does not represent anyone or anything but himself.

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