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  • Should I move from cf to om?

    Oh right... So what would make OM a better choice than others? I personally use centrafuse (not the new one), it's never crashed on me, takes less than about 20secs to play music/videos from hibernation and imo it looks great with good expandability... It's not free to *legally* use the software, but it doesn't cost the earth either.

    I haven't gone very far with free front ends because tbh Centrafuse was a doddle to setup compared to many I tried and looked much better than the majority.

    Would OM realistically be competitive with something like Centrafuse putting cost aside?

  • #2
    What features in CF are important for you, and what hardware is your CarPC comprised of?

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    • #3
      I've got a Zotac 9300 ITX board with a fairly powerful intel dual core cpu on it. I understand Linux has presented some issues with these boards going by comments made by those using them for XBMC units. But I haven't bothered with Linux as I wanted to use Centrafuse. The rest of the system is as you'd expect. I don't have TV or Radio at the moment however as it sounded like more hassle than it's worth lol and to be honest, I'd rarely use it.

      At the moment I use my carpc for satnav, music, video, gps logging, 3g internet, reverse camera and if I could be bothered maybe radio. I don't use any other functions at the moment, OBDII stuff but not often, rather plug it in to my laptop in the garage if I need too.

      If I'm honest, I didn't need a carpc (as I'm sure most would admit quietly to! lol), but I'm a gadget freak... I'm also working on video recording with GPS for an insurance fallback- if there was a built in feature to any software for this it'd be worth its weight in Gold!

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      • #4
        Oh and bluetooth but my phones buggered so haven't been able to make use of that feature at all lol.

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        • #5
          Here's how OM would work better for you:

          the Zotac 9300 has the Nvidia geforce 9300 GPU on it (Have the exact same board with C2D E7200, currently peaks at 1% using OM). OM renders using full opengl hardware acceleration. CF doesn't even know the GPU exists. So you have a more than adequate board, but are handcuffing it by forcing it to use your CPU for everything. In the future you may consider adding multiple zones to your ride (to appease your gadget freakyness) for passengers. OM will allow you to use the Zotac to power every zone with GPU acceleration leaving the CPU to just do the calculations for each zone. With CF, your CPU will be working 3 times as hard, and performance is going to suffer, and may require you to install ANOTHER computer to support the zones.

          OM currently supports multi-zone, Speech, embedded navigation, music, video, pandora streaming, cameras, contacts, wifi, radio, weather, etc... etc...

          Bluetooth sync is written and will be implemented in a future release.

          and its free and open source to the community.

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          • #6
            At the moment I do have touchscreen headrests connected to two independent pcs, but I'm looking at running both on one PC with VMWare or VB etc.

            The thing is, those boxes aren't high powered or have a decent graphics card... Would that mean OM wouldn't be able to be used on them? If so, this is a major issue as the majority of users on this forum want cheap, low powered carpcs rather than anything flashy, expensive and power hungry (as the Zotac is compared to certain via/atom alternatives).
            Not at all. OM is very light, it just needs an OpenGL supported graphics card to get the maximum useability from. Unlike other front-ends, it doesn't rely on on other applications to make it useful, trimming the bloat. What I was suggesting above is using 1 PC, the zotac, to power the 3 zones. The zotac paired with a C2D is more than powerful enough to do this, and can easily be powered up to 320 Watts by an Opus, which is actually overkill even for this set-up in my opinion. Power 3 separate computers will likely draw more power and setting up virtual machines across them and maintaining complete integration sounds harder than it really should be.

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            • #7
              Just a few little things to add. You mentioned linux and while we are trying to support linux as best as we can, OM runs perfectly amazing under windows. Linux is just an attempt to support another platform.

              Should you switch? At this point it comes down to what abilities you need. The plugins that have been created are heavily tested by the testing team are great and thoroughly checked. Props to those guys for a job well done. So if the plugins exist I can almost guaranty that are quality. Being a semi new project there are some rarer features that are in the works but not yet complete like ODB and fusion brain. If we are missing something that is a deal breaker then you may have to wait for a bit till it gets implemented.

              My recommendation, wait till .8 is released *soon* and give it a try. It can be easily set up and run on just about any PC in minutes. See if what you need is available and proceed from there.
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              • #8
                Originally posted by ws6vert View Post
                Here's how OM would work better for you:

                the Zotac 9300 has the Nvidia geforce 9300 GPU on it (Have the exact same board with C2D E7200, currently peaks at 1% using OM). OM renders using full opengl hardware acceleration. CF doesn't even know the GPU exists. So you have a more than adequate board, but are handcuffing it by forcing it to use your CPU for everything. In the future you may consider adding multiple zones to your ride (to appease your gadget freakyness) for passengers. OM will allow you to use the Zotac to power every zone with GPU acceleration leaving the CPU to just do the calculations for each zone. With CF, your CPU will be working 3 times as hard, and performance is going to suffer, and may require you to install ANOTHER computer to support the zones.

                OM currently supports multi-zone, Speech, embedded navigation, music, video, pandora streaming, cameras, contacts, wifi, radio, weather, etc... etc...

                Bluetooth sync is written and will be implemented in a future release.

                and its free and open source to the community.
                I am also a Zotac 9300 user, I'm also a Zotac 610i user, both using nVidia chipsets 9300, 7050. You make it seem like CF is going to bring the system to a crawl. CF on my AMD Dual Core was lightning fast, and that with 31+ USB devices and dual zone setup. Never was there a hick up.

                Also the premise that he will have to install a second system is completely wrong. Its only if you want to run a Dual Zone (shared by all) and Multi Zone (separate), where you will need two systems, which is why I have two of them. I am running 3D games on the main system in a shared environment and I don't want the multi zone users to suffer.

                Also OM does have more features then when I tried to play with it, but the GUI isn't nice, its still lacking a ton of things CF can do, CF has a large 3rd party plug-in development base. No its not free, but it isn't that expensive either. $79.00 is a very reasonable price.

                Originally posted by ws6vert View Post
                Not at all. OM is very light, it just needs an OpenGL supported graphics card to get the maximum useability from. Unlike other front-ends, it doesn't rely on on other applications to make it useful, trimming the bloat. What I was suggesting above is using 1 PC, the zotac, to power the 3 zones. The zotac paired with a C2D is more than powerful enough to do this, and can easily be powered up to 320 Watts by an Opus, which is actually overkill even for this set-up in my opinion. Power 3 separate computers will likely draw more power and setting up virtual machines across them and maintaining complete integration sounds harder than it really should be.
                You are correct, C2D is more then enough. Mine is running six different zones. Also the OPUS 320 is runs it perfectly. I did shop very carefully for the board though. i chose the Zotac 610i because the GPU isn't all that powerful, and to get the 5 other display ports, I used legacy graphics cards, again to cut down on power, and the final display is a USB graphics card. All this is able to be powered with the Opus 320. The Zotac 9300 though is fairly beefy, I'd be a bit nervous running it with a OPUS 320... Id maybe go with a OPUS 360.

                Again, he is right, trust me, I tried a 7 Car PC install. All though the tech was easy to fit, in the end the powering of all of it was a big pain in the @$$. It was easier to just design a PC that could do it all.

                Originally posted by heezer7 View Post
                Just a few little things to add. You mentioned linux and while we are trying to support linux as best as we can, OM runs perfectly amazing under windows. Linux is just an attempt to support another platform.

                Should you switch? At this point it comes down to what abilities you need. The plugins that have been created are heavily tested by the testing team are great and thoroughly checked. Props to those guys for a job well done. So if the plugins exist I can almost guaranty that are quality. Being a semi new project there are some rarer features that are in the works but not yet complete like ODB and fusion brain. If we are missing something that is a deal breaker then you may have to wait for a bit till it gets implemented.

                My recommendation, wait till .8 is released *soon* and give it a try. It can be easily set up and run on just about any PC in minutes. See if what you need is available and proceed from there.
                I agree..... its good to get opinions from other people, but don't base judgment on that. The best thing to do is test both and see which you like. CF does offer a free trial and OM is free. I personally designed my setup around CF, so it works for me. RideRunner was just to much for me (as far as setup), and it lacks dual and multi zone abilities. OM, is too new, it doesn't have enough people developing the type of plug ins CF has and the skinning drove me crazy. I think in the future OM will compete with CF, but right now I don't see it.
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by HiJackZX1 View Post
                  I am also a Zotac 9300 user, I'm also a Zotac 610i user, both using nVidia chipsets 9300, 7050. You make it seem like CF is going to bring the system to a crawl. CF on my AMD Dual Core was lightning fast, and that with 31+ USB devices and dual zone setup. Never was there a hick up.

                  Also the premise that he will have to install a second system is completely wrong. Its only if you want to run a Dual Zone (shared by all) and Multi Zone (separate), where you will need two systems, which is why I have two of them. I am running 3D games on the main system in a shared environment and I don't want the multi zone users to suffer.
                  So you have two boards with great GPUs, but CF can't use them. What benefit is that? There is no denying that GPU acceleration will increase performance and efficiency. From his description, he wants multi-zone. He stated he already has 2 pcs each for his passengers and wanted to condense that to 1. Thats multi-zone. CF currently cannot do this. If it could, I still say you would see performance drops each time another zone begins navigating and using system resources, because of CF's dependence on the CPU. Bottom line, if your build includes a GPU capable of OpenGL 2.0 (practically anything made since late 1990s), then why not make use of it?

                  And we have a few skins in progress, screen shots of some have been posted in the skin sub-forum.

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                  • #10
                    Minimum requirements are OpenGL 1.0 (standardized at the beginning of the 90's)... I would take a look at our plugins section after this weekend (compare it to any alternatives you might be considering) and decide for yourself.
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ws6vert View Post
                      So you have two boards with great GPUs, but CF can't use them. What benefit is that? There is no denying that GPU acceleration will increase performance and efficiency. From his description, he wants multi-zone. He stated he already has 2 pcs each for his passengers and wanted to condense that to 1. Thats multi-zone. CF currently cannot do this. If it could, I still say you would see performance drops each time another zone begins navigating and using system resources, because of CF's dependence on the CPU. Bottom line, if your build includes a GPU capable of OpenGL 2.0 (practically anything made since late 1990s), then why not make use of it?

                      And we have a few skins in progress, screen shots of some have been posted in the skin sub-forum.
                      That is true, but there is an update that will enable Multi-zone, and that update is almost here (CF is on 3.1 and 3.2 is slatted to have multi-zone). Right now OM is missing too many other features. Your Multi-zone doesnt justify all the other features he will be loosing. Also, the multi-zone aspect in CF does not suffer from performance drops using dual or multi-zone. Maybe on a slow ATOM based system, yes, but like you said he is running a great board, with a beefy processor. The plugin that creates the multizone experience is very light. Its literally almost instantanious. The only issues I have had with it, is the push feature, which I dont use anyways and I doubt TheGuv will use either, a feature OM doesnt even have in multi-zone.

                      Like I said before, try them both and see which you like. I can go back and fourth on all the negatives and positives of both frontends, but in the end, its TheGuvs experience that should be taken into effect and determine which is best for him. WS6Vert, JustChat_1 and me are way to involved with our frontends so we are obviously always going to bash each other (How long has this war been going on?). I will say that I cant wait till the multi-zone is unlocked in CF 3.2 (Yes multi-zone is in CF 3.1, just locked), then you will not be able to use that card anymore.
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by HiJackZX1 View Post
                        Right now OM is missing too many other features. Your Multi-zone doesnt justify all the other features he will be loosing.
                        What features is he losing? Everything he listed OM supports. Again, my argument stands that OM sets itself apart from the rest with its hardware acceleration.

                        CF recently did a plugin development contest. There was only 1 plugin created that was new for the contest. Where is the innovation? Where is the CF team generating the possibilities for plugin developers to design on there platform. Lets face it, with the increase in tablet technology, in order to keep the carPC hobby alive, there has to be innovation. There has to be something that retains the users interests, and captures the interests of others. For example, there is no doubt the majority of the members on this forum are RR users. There has been no innovation in that arena for a long time, and its hemoraghing interest in the hobby, evident by the statistic that the most members ever online was nearly 2 years ago, there is hardly any growth unfortunately.

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                        • #13
                          Hold up- does the popular via itx boards support OpenGL? I was under the impression the best graphics on one of them was the Unichrome chipset which didn't do OpenGL 2.0? At least that's what I found when using XBMC on one!

                          XBMC's biggest issue is OpenGL, not just because low powered ITX systems but also Linux is pretty painful to correctly setup with most cards supporting OpenGL. There's so many people who've had to change hardware just to get XBMC running and tbh, a lot of users go off the idea as soon as the hit these issues.

                          And IMO your biggest custom base will be from those running Linux.

                          I used the Zotac setup because I wanted to future proof (now starting to be glad I did!) and to have a useful system outside of the car if I ever decided to go a different route in the future... At least the Zotac will be a decent PC in the house or as a MC.

                          I got the Zotac setup in pre-atom times and was the most powerful ITX solution.

                          If I wanted a basic CarPC (which is all anyone needs), I would have got one of the Via boards or maybe the Jetway.

                          And tbh, CF and all the other bits on my CarPC don't even make a mark on the performance graphs, so I'm not sure why you think it's power hungry- after all it runs fine on very simple systems for others.

                          Just because CF doesn't use OpenGL- don't discard it... It is the most userfriendly interface going and looks better than all the others out there. Why do you think people who use different front ends try to make it look like CF? lol.

                          I don't want transitions on my menus etc, I want it to be there right after I've pressed the screen- and CF does this perfectly.

                          I'm not a total CF fan by the way! I agree that suppor and development need vast improvements... It's wrong that you have to rely on 3rd parties to develop a package you've paid for...

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                          • #14
                            Just pointing out the differences. You have a very powerful carPC, with a very advanced graphics processor, that you could certainly make use of. Thats the biggest difference in CF and OM at the moment. OM will soon realease version 0.8, and I'd say it has achieved quite alot of innovation, and more to come before its official 1.0 release. And if the basic graphics employed right now are not of your taste, well we have a solution for that as well.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by TheGuv View Post
                              And tbh, CF and all the other bits on my CarPC don't even make a mark on the performance graphs, so I'm not sure why you think it's power hungry- after all it runs fine on very simple systems for others.
                              I'd really like to see a proper CF profile. How long it takes to start, it's memory footprint, CPU load average, how many times per second it wakes up to operate, etc. Anyone up to the challenge? Then compare that side by side with OM.

                              When I tried CF, I did note that it's huge the entire program was larger than the entire LinuxICE iso (ie, >300mb), It took forever to start and I don't recall the memory footprint but I'm willing to bet it's pretty big.
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