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  • Ubuntu Vs. XP...

    Sorry I don't have a lot of time to read more. I will be but I'm in a rush possibly trying to by something very soon.

    Anyways. I hate XP in general and would really like to use Ubuntu. However, I am not sure of the options. Has anyone used RR and nGhost and which would you consider to be better/easier to use/and more user friendly?

    Also it looks like freemaps has some sort of software that I could use on Ubuntu BUT XP appears to have a lot of options.

    Basically, if I were to use Ubuntu would I be able to have a fully functional frontend, navi, and media system set up to the level that RR and other software could provide on Windows.

    Cheaper is better, and Ubuntu is just awesome in general, and I'm not afraid of messing with software to get it to work, I don't have lots of experience but I like to mess with things.

    PS If I were to use freemaps (I t hink that's the name) can I just use any old GPS reciever?

  • #2
    XP is the best option.

    There is absolutely no advantage to running Linux.

    And just to get it out right away, I use Vista, XP, OSX, and various linux distros, so dont be ignoring me because of a microsoft fanboy status.

    Running Linux, Vista, or OSX is just for show. XP is the most supported right now. And the purpose of a frontend is to mask the OS. So you wont even know what it is running. So choose a frontend whether it be Centrafuse, RoadRunner, StreetDeck, FrontRow (not sure of its name, it is the mac one), or some of the linux ones. See which one you like, and put the OS that supports that frontend. For GPS and everything, there is no question that windows platform is the winner. There is nothing even close on other OS's period.
    Fusion Brain Version 6 Released!
    1.9in x 2.9in -- 47mm x 73mm
    30 Digital Outputs -- Directly drive a relay
    15 Analogue Inputs -- Read sensors like temperature, light, distance, acceleration, and more
    Buy now in the MP3Car.com Store

    Comment


    • #3
      we look forward to proving you wrong very soon .

      Windows may have more mature CarPC software but you are still building on top of a foundation that wasn't designed for what you are doing. That is why you have to reinvent the wheel a thousand times and "mask" the OS.

      For this application, Linux cannot be beat. It's got a thousand wheels ripe for the picking. We just need time to mature the CarPC-specific software a bit.
      Former author of LinuxICE, nghost, nobdy.
      Current author of Automotive Message Broker (AMB).
      Works on Tizen IVI. Does not represent anyone or anything but himself.

      Comment


      • #4
        dude! how can you say xp is the most supported.

        xp has no support other than geeks and microsoft - microsoft arent helpful and charge a fortune. and geeks - well most of them prefer linux except for some games (like crysis etc)

        whereas any linux distro has a main suport channel with at least 1000 people there who are willing to help for FREE - and if they cant answer it they know someone who can. or if you are having a problem with a particular program - you can talk to the developers.

        xp runs on a registry and internet explorer ... two of the worst combinations possible. linux can run from the bare kernel up to a full blown production suite. you want linux with a gui to support nghost? throw the kernel along with Xorg, sdl and alsa.

        not to mention the hardware requirements - do a minimal build and install everything necessary for nghost and you can run it quickly on a p2 with 184 meg ram. xp would require a p4 with 512mb of ram and a decent video card if you want the nice effects.

        in short ... ubuntu = small fast, xp = bad to the bone :P

        Comment


        • #5
          I use linux, I am not retarded.

          For the car, the low end in most cases in a M10000. With a full copy of XP Pro, mine booted up in under 25seconds to playing music through RR. I saw the desktop for a second, and voila frontend. It doesnt matter what is below the frontend, as long as it runs the software.

          All the software is made for windows, because it is the most popular. And I have XP installed on a P3, runs fine. Yes it uses the registry to save info, so what? What does that have to do with anything car related? I am not saying XP is the best OS. I am saying XP is the best to use for the car. And unless you too think like the Norwegians who programmed Opera, you can install another browser whether it be FireFox, Opera, whatever. So again, I see no relevance.

          What do you do with a carpc? Music, Video, GPS, Phone Control, Game emulation maybe? Music and Video is supported by everyone equally well. GPS, hands down is XP. If you think otherwise then you have not used GPS on a windows box. Phone Control I am not really familiar with on linux, but I dont see why it cannot be done.

          So pretty much all the OS's do the same thing with the exception of GPS which I could not live without. Now it comes to looks. RoadRunner, Centrafuse and Streetdeck are the best in my opinion, and all are windows based. And you can even set RoadRunner as the shell.

          I think you need to evaluate your opinion on this not from a linux fanboy point of view, but as a carPC point of view.

          Boot times: equal
          Music: equal
          Video: equal
          GPS: XP
          Support: No question XP
          Browser?!: equal

          Only gain for linux is cost. But who doesnt own a copy or 7 of XP? And it can be picked up for $10 at a university.
          Fusion Brain Version 6 Released!
          1.9in x 2.9in -- 47mm x 73mm
          30 Digital Outputs -- Directly drive a relay
          15 Analogue Inputs -- Read sensors like temperature, light, distance, acceleration, and more
          Buy now in the MP3Car.com Store

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by kev000 View Post
            Windows may have more mature CarPC software but you are still building on top of a foundation that wasn't designed for what you are doing. That is why you have to reinvent the wheel a thousand times and "mask" the OS.
            I didnt want to start a linux vs. pc vs. mac thing but since we already are here goes...

            No OS is designed for this. All software is built on the foundation. Even linux. It may be "bundled" in a linux distro (again 1 of a 1000 reinventing the same thing with different options) but it is still a core, and extras. Windows is the same except the core comes pre-bundled with stuff that makes it friggin huge and bloated. Who says you can't take it off? Just like who says you cant add to the linux distro?

            It is all the same for the car underneath. What you interact with everyday, is the frontend no whatter what OS. And the extra software is what makes it that much cooler. So like I said in the first post, pick your frontend, pick your software, then pick the OS it runs on. And if you pick objectively with no preconceptions, it will be windows. If you are already biased as I see you are with the windows sucks attitude, then you are probably going to choose linux. Nothing wrong with it, you just wont have as big of a software choice. But you will save yourself $10.
            Fusion Brain Version 6 Released!
            1.9in x 2.9in -- 47mm x 73mm
            30 Digital Outputs -- Directly drive a relay
            15 Analogue Inputs -- Read sensors like temperature, light, distance, acceleration, and more
            Buy now in the MP3Car.com Store

            Comment


            • #7
              Boot times: equal
              Music: equal
              Video: equal
              GPS: XP
              Support: No question XP
              Browser?!: equal
              Boot times: Linux - do you get 25 seconds cold? That can easily be beat.

              Music: Linux - non-real-time OS's have >11ms delays between the time the sound signal is produced and when it hits the processor. the more EQ, pre/post-processing you are doing the more frames you will drop. The faster the computer the lower the latency but we are talking about an epia m10000 here.

              Video: Linux - Same as above but more important because you are also processing video at the same time.

              GPS: A tie at best. Linux runs very comparable native software and runs iGuidance which is what most windows carpc users run anyway.

              Support: Linux - 90% of the source is open with active communities that develop/use it. If there is a major bug in a core windows application you are stuck trying to find a workaround because there are no bug-reporting nor anyway to get a hold of a developer.

              Browser: I agree with you. I think mozilla mobile may also available for windows... not 100% sure.

              To answer the original question. Admittedly, the Linux carPC software is not yet mature enough to compare to RR or the others. We'll catch up and possibly surpass in some areas. Just give us more time.

              You should be able to use just about any/all gps receivers. (i don't know of one that doesn't work).
              Former author of LinuxICE, nghost, nobdy.
              Current author of Automotive Message Broker (AMB).
              Works on Tizen IVI. Does not represent anyone or anything but himself.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by kev000 View Post
                Boot times: Linux - do you get 25 seconds cold? That can easily be beat.

                Music: Linux - non-real-time OS's have >11ms delays between the time the sound signal is produced and when it hits the processor. the more EQ, pre/post-processing you are doing the more frames you will drop. The faster the computer the lower the latency but we are talking about an epia m10000 here.

                Video: Linux - Same as above but more important because you are also processing video at the same time.

                GPS: A tie at best. Linux runs very comparable native software and runs iGuidance which is what most windows carpc users run anyway.

                Support: Linux - 90% of the source is open with active communities that develop/use it. If there is a major bug in a core application you are stuck trying to find a workaround because there are no bug-reporting nor anyway to get a hold of a developer.

                Browser: I agree with you. I think mozilla mobile may also available for windows... not 100% sure.

                To answer the original question. Admittedly, the Linux carPC software is not yet mature enough to compare to RR or the others. We'll catch up and possibly surpass in some areas. Just give us more time.

                You should be able to use just about any/all gps receivers. (i don't know of one that doesn't work).
                Yeah 25s cold on the m10k with a full XP Pro (everything including messenger starting on startup. I click the button on my keychain, walk to my car, and it is playing when I open the door, so I am not too concerned with stripping it down. Since I changed motherboards, this bios is no where near as fast, so it takes about 35s cold, but again, full xp pro sp2 install.

                As far as music and video with the 11ms delay, I do not mind. My amp was close to $50 shipped. I think there is a site that sell it for $13 + s/h. So I am not an audiophile, nor do I pretend to be. I am sure Red and turbo can explain. Both use a beefy setup I think for their audio processing.

                But for music and video playbakc like hit the button and voila media, they are pretty much equal. My ears dont care about lossless audio, and most people dont. If you do though, then that is a whole different thing, I have very little knowledge about.

                I didnt know mozilla mobile was available for windows, but there are options galore for all os's. Although I think the creepiest is IE on OSX... Just doesnt sound right to me.

                There is no doubt that linux will gain a good advantage one day when this becomes more mainstream. I think even Toyota or Honda or someone is using a linux core for their carOS. Once that happens, then there will be some serious competition. The wackos will be those without computers in their cars, and most will be from the factory with a linux core. Except if you drive a ford (or whatever they own like lincoln), but then that is a whole different set of problems!

                And with iG, I you need to run an emulator like whine dont you? I was referring to the linux based ones like gpsdrive, roadnav, navit... I think there is another but cannot think of it.
                Fusion Brain Version 6 Released!
                1.9in x 2.9in -- 47mm x 73mm
                30 Digital Outputs -- Directly drive a relay
                15 Analogue Inputs -- Read sensors like temperature, light, distance, acceleration, and more
                Buy now in the MP3Car.com Store

                Comment


                • #9
                  I've used both ubuntu w/ nghost and xp w/ roadrunner.

                  Frankly, the xp is better to use if you just want something to work with minimal configuration. Roadrunner just installs and is a cinch to setup/configure. It also has a very well thought out user GUI (on-the-fly playlists...). I was pretty happy with the bootup times, too. Under a minute and that was with no optimization whatsoever.

                  and, obviously, the linux option is better if you want to do your own thing (customize your way, run crazy scripts to update your music library every night transparently, etc). Kev000, I love you and the work you're doing on nghost and i'm rooting for you to blast the windows solutions outta the water, but, (in my opinion) nghost just isn't as good as roadrunner yet. I didn't have many issues with GPS in linux (Roadnav seemed the best for my American hiney). Also, everything is free in linux (and no, i don't have an extra copy of windows lying around and I think most windows GPS courses are pretty expensive, ~$100). Finally, I've actually had to stop using Ubuntu cause its corrupts my harddrives. which is annoying.

                  this probably doesn't help at all, but its something to chew on.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks for the information guys.

                    I still can not decide which route I want to go. I have no idea how to write scripts or customize things in my own way on Linux, but part of me wants to install Ubuntu and start figuring things out. I like the idea of free software, should take advantage of it while it's out there.

                    BUT I do think that overall XP would be easier, or so it seems. I DO have a copy so that's not too much of a problem.

                    I think I'm going to try Ubuntu and whatever software first, and then if I can't get anything working I'll move over to XP.

                    Any tips for the best Linux setup would be great, mostly the best music/video software and what not. A big reason I going towards linux is so I don't need to maintain it once it's in my car and I have faster load times since I don't have a great pc.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      That's cool you are willing to try out Linux. If you are going with ubuntu add the LinuxICE repo so you can easily get updates.

                      A simple:
                      sudo apt-get install nghost icetouch
                      will go a long way.

                      Here is more information on the LinuxICE stuff.
                      Former author of LinuxICE, nghost, nobdy.
                      Current author of Automotive Message Broker (AMB).
                      Works on Tizen IVI. Does not represent anyone or anything but himself.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Yeah, my friend downloaded Ubuntu and was showing it to me it's really cool. Something I'll try out for sure.

                        Thanks for the link. I'll probably be trying out a lot of things in the near future. Free GPS is a major reason I am going to try and go with Linux, I hope to find good working software for that need.

                        I'll be looking around once I get my carputer computer usable. Thanks for the help.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ilovemyhonda View Post
                          Free GPS is a major reason I am going to try and go with Linux, I hope to find good working software for that need.
                          Good luck
                          Laidback


                          The ultimate CarPC - Wow!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Laidback View Post
                            Good luck

                            Is it not easy to find working GPS software for free?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              GPS in linux is an adventure for sure, but you can't hate the OS because of the front end. nGhost is young and still developing (Rapidly if i might add). linux (and yes i have used mac windows and linux[actually typing this on an xp machine right now]) is a better OS than XP. The linuxice team is doing it's best to bring together all the different pieces of linux software out there into one os that simply requires inserting a disk and hitting install. I am a linuxice/nGhost team member, and I have been running xp in my car for a while, but at soon as nGhost 1.1 hits the web, I am converting. Better boot times, more reliable, and much more customizable.
                              nGhost - The FREE Frontend for Linux | Graphics Developer
                              Linux ICE - The Car PC Distro | Team Member

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