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Mac based software - Bribes and Bounty!

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  • Mac based software - Bribes and Bounty!

    Hello all-

    I've been following the Mac based carputer scene for a while, and I've gotten quite frustrated that there hasn't emerged a well polished, complete system.

    The few projects that are out there have developers who have busted their butts, to be sure. But let's face it, none of these is a robust, stable platform ready for the primetime. No offense guys.

    Since I am not a capable enough dev to "roll my own", I've done the next best thing. I've put my money where my mouth is.

    If you go to Superimposable.org you will see that I've created a site with Milestones and High Level architecture for an OSX based carputer application.

    I've furnished some bribes, and donated $100 on BountyUp.com to get the ball rolling.

    Developers: If you want some schwag (and money!), here is your bribe- Superimposable.org

    If you aren't a developer, but are as desperate as I am for a polished base system, no worries!

    You can contribute bribes and bounty as well, Superimposable.org


    I am not affiliated with BountyUp.com, I am simply using them as the Bounty escrow service. Monies donated through them will be held until the completion of a milestone. If the milestone is never completed, the money will be refunded to the kind donors who put the stake up to begin with.

    I've made the initial contributions, now who wants to help get this ball rolling forward?

  • #2
    deff tempting
    Check out the new version of NAS, a cross platform music frontend here

    Comment


    • #3
      tempting. I must say tho that most, if not all devs here, barely have time to work on their own FEs. you should post on other mac developer centric sites/forums.

      maybe once the money gets higher you could lure others from here
      check us out at: www.neonboombox.com

      Comment


      • #4
        $100 for an app is a steal! Any dev willing to do it for that money I would be weary of offers when it is this low.

        If it gets to 4 digits, I may consider it.
        Fusion Brain Version 6 Released!
        1.9in x 2.9in -- 47mm x 73mm
        30 Digital Outputs -- Directly drive a relay
        15 Analogue Inputs -- Read sensors like temperature, light, distance, acceleration, and more
        Buy now in the MP3Car.com Store

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by 2k1Toaster View Post
          $100 for an app is a steal! Any dev willing to do it for that money I would be weary of offers when it is this low.
          You may be missing the point. I am not offering $100 for an finished app..

          I am trying to get a crowdsource movement going for an app. Theoretically, the payoff to the devs would be as great as the community demand will support.

          People tend to dismiss projects where the money is virtual, and talented devs dismiss projects that aren't worth their time. $100 is not going to pay the rent, but for a single starting contribution, I hope it's substantial enough to get some attention.

          NeonDev:

          I agree wholeheartedly. I have already begun shopping this around my own circles, but the trick with crowdsourcing is getting people involved on all levels.
          For example, your time is valuable and otherwise occupied. I hear you. But your own project allows for dynamic palette changes to a theme. Perhaps this is something you may consider contributing down the road.

          Long story shorter, this is not designed to be a single person effort. Between contributions, promotion, and actual development, this will take a community effort.

          Like I said, just trying to get the ball rolling

          Comment


          • #6
            What gives...

            I've talked to a number of people I know professionally/personally, as well as random lazyweb devs. And the overall response to the Bounty idea is "Meh..".

            I've been involved in a lot of OSS in the past (where there was no bounty..) and usually you have a decent cross section of people really excited to get cracking. As is often the case in OSS, of course, these same people often burn out halfway through, but I digress.

            Is the market demand for a suitable Mac front-end really so low? As I think about it, I suppose it really is a tiny niche (Mac) within in a tiny niche (Car computing).

            Maybe what I want is too far off from the mean standard..
            Perhaps I am going about this the wrong way altogether..

            Any thoughts/suggestions?

            Comment


            • #7
              The first problem I see is that the front-end is really about what you want in it, so people aren't really excited to jump in.

              However, I say the best bet is to hit up Rent-A-Coder and get it made. It may cost a bit but you can get EXACTLY what you want.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by DeathChill View Post
                The first problem I see is that the front-end is really about what you want in it, so people aren't really excited to jump in.
                You mean in terms of feature set? Am I trying to be too specific?

                I went with the things that seemed to be constant sources of aggravation, but perhaps you are right. Perhaps what I should be chasing is an extensible front-end, or sponsored development on specific modules/plugins for another (existing) front-end.

                Originally posted by DeathChill View Post
                However, I say the best bet is to hit up Rent-A-Coder and get it made. It may cost a bit but you can get EXACTLY what you want.
                While you are of course correct that this could be done, it sort of eliminates one of my goals.

                While I certainly want a polished package available for my use, I am really hoping to figure out a way to drum up a community around a project, so to speak. This is one of the big reasons I felt it was a necessity to have a GPLv3 (or compatible).

                Thanks for your .02 DeathChill, it's certainly appreciated.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Well the closest you have now is Neon Boombox. And I believe the devs are accepting input on what you want, and there will be plugin support for it from what I have heard. Hopefully it will turn into a mac RoadRunner for you guys.

                  Until then just run RR in parallels like normal people!
                  Fusion Brain Version 6 Released!
                  1.9in x 2.9in -- 47mm x 73mm
                  30 Digital Outputs -- Directly drive a relay
                  15 Analogue Inputs -- Read sensors like temperature, light, distance, acceleration, and more
                  Buy now in the MP3Car.com Store

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by 2k1Toaster View Post
                    Well the closest you have now is Neon Boombox. And I believe the devs are accepting input on what you want, and there will be plugin support for it from what I have heard.
                    True enough, and NeonDev (obviously) is quite active in this mp3car forums/community.
                    My biggest concern is that NeonBoomBox is not OSS. It's not price that concerns me, it's sustainability.

                    What happens when life catches up to NeonDev? It happens, it has happened. We can hope that NeonDev releases the source, but even still there is no guarantee that the code will be of (much) use to anyone else. If we're lucky, NeonDev maintains meticulous documentation / architecture description / verbose commenting..

                    And all this is A) Assuming the worst [I certainly hope that NeonBoomBox flourishes] B) the source is released.

                    But your point is well taken: Rather than re-invent the wheel, why not help along existing projects. Perhaps it would be more fruitful to start a Bounty project supporting the development of a solid OBD-II plugin/module. Or GPS. Or what-have-you.

                    Frankly, the more I mull this over (and get feedback from here and elsewhere) it seems like this is the only logical way to get anything done.

                    Originally posted by 2k1Toaster View Post
                    Until then just run RR in parallels like normal people!
                    Now that's just ridiculous

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I'll write it in my will to have the NBB source released.
                      I wouldn't get your hopes up for a whole lot of comments in it tho.

                      right now I am working on V2 of the NBB SDK which allows 3rd parties to make just as feature rich modules as I have made for it. It includes all my subclasses for dynamic color changing and all that other good stuff. The biggest problem is writing the documentation. I can give you the SDK now but no programmer will be able to use it without directions.

                      I think you are getting close to finding an approach that will get you what you want tho. I myself am not willing to start all over on a brand new FE, I have put too much into NBB, and it is obviously important to me. I also don't feel like releasing my source for the core application. However, what I would do is accept a bounty to create an open source module or two for NBB. the biggest thing holding me back from developing OBD2 and GPS/nav modules is the lack of hardware I have. I have no carputer I have no GPS module I have no OBD2-to-serial-to-USB capability. If somebody donated money or hardware those things would get done sooner rather than later. that is why I am working on an XM radio module for NBB; I have no interest in XM radio myself, but somebody who did sent me the hardware and now I have successfully interfaced with it and have only to write a module. the hard work on that end is done it is just time that I am finding hard to come by.

                      just remember I am only one person and can only do one thing at a time, and most of the time that is my actual job that puts food in my mouth. Give me the hardware/money and point me to some documentation on the subject and I'll get you what you want. its just a matter of time.

                      Navigation solutions (especially good ones) are very complex.
                      what i suggest (assuming an NBB module solution) is somebody grab the mac compatible guts out of the best open source mac or unix compatible navigation program and bundle it into an open source navigation module. I will even help
                      check us out at: www.neonboombox.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by NeonDev View Post
                        just remember I am only one person and can only do one thing at a time, and most of the time that is my actual job that puts food in my mouth. Give me the hardware/money and point me to some documentation on the subject and I'll get you what you want. its just a matter of time.
                        Of course. Feature creep is the hardest thing to overcome, especially when working on a successful project by yourself. It's inevitable that all software will reach a point of emacs syndrome (that is, you attempt to include everything AND the kitchen sink).

                        An obvious solution to this is doing exactly what you've elected: Develop the core, and the "add-ons" that are low hanging fruit (eg, those you have the hardware for), leave the kitchen-sink to plugin/mod makers.

                        Bear with me on the next part, it's a bit of a brain dump:

                        Objectively speaking, what stops you (or someone else in your situation) from using the community support you've received on your closed source app, and turning it into shareware, or worse yet, commercial? Those who have helped the overall end-product by donating money/hardware/code, end up with a piece of software they have no stake or control over.

                        Pragmatically speaking, the only real solution with a closed source "core" is to release these "sponsored" plugins under some form of license that is agreeable with those who sponsored. In the event that the "core" application does change license/cost, those who contributed (in some fashion) to the creation of the add-ons aren't left feeling "out in the cold".

                        Of course this is solely my opinion, and I wouldn't dare suggest that you (or Jirka, or anyone else) feel obliged to do it this way.

                        Frankly, I am more than happy to purchase the first "decent" Mac based system that comes down the pipe. I just don't see any available right now. And understandably so, the OSX space for this niche market just can't be a profitable platform for 99.9% of the companies out there. OEMs don't want to mess with Macs because of pricing and distribution issues, most users probably feel the same, and devs face some real challenges in terms of COTS hardware compatibility / community interest.

                        Which is how I end up feeling that the only way this is going to happen is through a community driven effort *even if it's towards a commercial application*.

                        So, after all this musing, meandering and rambling....

                        Here is my suggestion, based on all the excellent feedback I've gotten on my (flawed) idea:
                        Developers: Create bounties for your existing platforms.

                        NeonDev, you mention that you are interested in working on OBD-II and GPS, but you require the hardware to do so. Understood.

                        I will buy you an ElmScan/5 Bluetooth w/ USB/RS-232 converter, provided I can impose a few requests:

                        When you are able to achieve your goal of an OBD-II plugin/interface, the source for that plugin is released under GPLv3*

                        I also think it would be great if you created some sort of donation page so that people like myself can help contribute money towards other hardware/tools required for your ongoing development. Hopefully, work resulting from these community contributions would be similarly licensed.

                        Originally posted by NeonDev View Post
                        Navigation solutions (especially good ones) are very complex.
                        what i suggest (assuming an NBB module solution) is somebody grab the mac compatible guts out of the best open source mac or unix compatible navigation program and bundle it into an open source navigation module. I will even help
                        The maemo platform has cut a wide swath on these types of projects. MaemoMapper was the second "major" attempt, and it is easily the most prolific. Most efforts after it's release seem to copy it, and I think it would probably be a good starting resource.
                        It's likely not terribly portable due to it's heavy reliance on the Nokia tablets Hildon/GTK, but I imagine the core math and tiling code is sound.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I have no intention of going commercial with NBB. I don't want to go "shareware" but if i did I would be sure to give anybody who as donated hardware or a fair amount of money would get free lifetime upgrades. My favorite choice is to keep what I do closed as donation ware that is free for anyone to use. I don't feel like donation ware is compatible with open source because a huge part of supporting it comes from feature requests (i.e. i will give you $X to make your app do this) and if it is open source there is a chance somebody will come along and harvest my hard work and repackage it because they don't like the interface or whatnot.

                          I am not in this to make huge amounts of cash. I am in it cuz Its what I will want when I finally get my carputer and nothing existed that fit my needs. Donations are the best thing for the community IMO. I feel like that makes the most of everything. It means nobody has to pay if they don't want to but they can donate to get features added.

                          i can promise that if the donors for such work as GPS/OBD2 wish it, I will release the source to those modules/classes/functions under whatever license they want as long as it doesn't prevent me from using it while the rest of the app is closed. I can even distribute the app and the modules separately if needed
                          check us out at: www.neonboombox.com

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by NeonDev View Post
                            I have no intention of going commercial with NBB. I don't want to go "shareware" but if i did I would be sure to give anybody who as donated hardware or a fair amount of money would get free lifetime upgrades.
                            This is great news!

                            Originally posted by NeonDev View Post
                            My favorite choice is to keep what I do closed as donation ware that is free for anyone to use. I don't feel like donation ware is compatible with open source because a huge part of supporting it comes from feature requests (i.e. i will give you $X to make your app do this) and if it is open source there is a chance somebody will come along and harvest my hard work and repackage it because they don't like the interface or whatnot.
                            This is an excellent point, and all the more reason to keep the "core" (eg Front-End) closed.

                            Originally posted by NeonDev View Post
                            i can promise that if the donors for such work as GPS/OBD2 wish it, I will release the source to those modules/classes/functions under whatever license they want as long as it doesn't prevent me from using it while the rest of the app is closed. I can even distribute the app and the modules separately if needed
                            Works for me. I see no reason that you couldn't distribute a GPLv3 licensed binary lib/plugin with the NBB itself, provided a download link for the source was available for the GPL'ed code itself.

                            NeonDev, if you're game, my offer stands for the Scantool. Drop me an email
                            hanzo[isat]freezerpants[nospamdot]com

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I think the right thing to do here is create modules for bounty. Car Front End, NBB, and AMP 2 all have plug in capability.

                              What would speed development would be open source modules that could be added in to any Mac app. For example:

                              1. A module for XM that works with a serial-virtual com port
                              2. A module for Sirius that works similarly
                              3. A module that interfaces with GPS and reports lat/long, speed, ETA's, etc.
                              4. A module that interfaces with and LCD/VFD display to allow output of data to these devices
                              5. A module that interfaces with an Elm Scan OBDII connector and the car
                              6. A screen dimming module that works like Shades

                              Stuff like that. Make those open source and let developers plug them in to their apps.

                              Hell, if you included applescriptability in them, most anyone could use standalone versions of them without killing themselves.
                              Originally posted by ghettocruzer
                              I was gung ho on building a PC [until] just recently. However, between my new phone having internet and GPS and all...and this kit...Im starting to have trouble justfiying it haha.
                              Want to:
                              -Find out about the new iBug iPad install?
                              -Find out about carPC's in just 5 minutes? View the Car PC 101 video

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