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  • Any Mac experts on PMU?

    Are there any Mac-experts out there that want to delve a bit deeper into the guts of the Mac PMU (power management unit) to see if there are any tweakable power parameters that may help with minimizing sleep mode power requirements? Info found at Apple Developer Connection
    Attached Files
    MikeH

  • #2
    http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=300574

    I called Apple and they told me to try this.... Mike, I want this to work IM DESPERATE to get my MAC MINI Running.. I was at work so I couldn't do much...

    http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=300574

    Regards,
    Juan
    1995 3000GT RED : MIAMI'S HOTTEST 3000GT
    V6King.com - 1st MAC MINI on a 3S

    Comment


    • #3
      i doubt u can change the actual energy requirements for a piece of computing equipment. Perhaps a tiny bit, but not at all to keep the machine in sleep for the >3 hrs the testing has shown to give video errors. I dont messing with BIOS or root energy requirements is a good idea. If you want the mini to sleep while you dont drive, buy another battery. You spent $1000 on yer carputer, spend $100 more
      (All done)
      iPad Mini 128GB, RF 600.5 amp, JL12W0V2, 8 Infinity Components

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      • #4
        actually the solution is to write a task to set up a sleep notifier, when sleep occurs set up a wakeup timer to go off in say 1 hour, at that time shutdown the mac.. if wakeup occurs before that, then cancel the shutdown timer.

        a good mac programmer should be able to handle it.

        Comment


        • #5
          a second battery dood, why are you against it? Solves the problem and gives you a ton more options when it comes to other hardware and audio stuff.

          yer making something for driving home. Eating lunch for 30min and going back to work, within the 1hr time window. TO save 30s of startup time? Gimme a break.
          (All done)
          iPad Mini 128GB, RF 600.5 amp, JL12W0V2, 8 Infinity Components

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          • #6
            sdashiki,
            a second battery dood, why are you against it?
            We certainly appreciate all of your positive contributions..., however, let's think about this a bit.

            When you say "a second battery" do you mean a second +12V automotive battery? We have reported that, from what we can tell now, the Mac will not successfully recover from sleep if the sleep voltage is +12V. This renders a second battery useless from a voltage perspective. It COULD save the primary battery from unwanted discharge, but again, the voltage appears to be too low. What we have found is the sleep voltage needs to be +18.5V to effectively resume the Mac from sleep. As posted in another thread, we are continuing to test this.

            IF by "second battery" you mean adding a series of batteries that adds up to +18V, then this MAY be an effective sleep power source. In fact, Martin M in California is trying this technique. The problem will be effectively and simply recharging this +18V battery system. You will need to come up with some sort of recharging mechanism.

            If I missed your point, I apoligize. Please enlighten us.
            MikeH

            Comment


            • #7
              No silly. I mean a second optima battery with isolator in the back.

              And you have to wait for a 12V dc PSU being made for the mac mini. You seem to see the problem its having as dropping below 12v and not being able to startup again.

              With a 2nd isolated battery it has a constant 12v.

              Wasting time and money just to keep yer mac asleep is stupid. Get a PSU like an Opus when it comes, and get a 2nd battery and isolator.

              how can a mac mini need 6.5V extra to wake from sleep when it operates at 12v? Or did I miss something...
              (All done)
              iPad Mini 128GB, RF 600.5 amp, JL12W0V2, 8 Infinity Components

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              • #8
                sheesh... I give.
                MikeH

                Comment


                • #9
                  Dood im not flaming you but yer working on a problem that to me seems pointless to attempt. Why are you wanting to figure this out? What does it solve for you?

                  Keeping your carputer ready for action at a moments notice?

                  if so, a 2nd battery is a must. just for practicality; going on vacation it can sleep if you needed. 2nd battery makes sure all your stuff is going to be powered whenever it needs to be powered and not just when yer driving.

                  I mean WHY are you so interested in solving this problem, backasswards when my suggestion works 100% and needs not room for improvement.
                  (All done)
                  iPad Mini 128GB, RF 600.5 amp, JL12W0V2, 8 Infinity Components

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by sdashiki
                    a second battery dood, why are you against it? Solves the problem and gives you a ton more options when it comes to other hardware and audio stuff.
                    ^bump^

                    A second battery is probably the best option. All facts considered everyone is running their mac mini from a 12v car battery anyway with a power converter of some sort, no?

                    Just incase you don't know about using a second battery in a car let me give you the gist of it. Basically you end up with two batteries, one being the battery for the cars starter, ecu, and any other factory device, this is the primary battery. The secondary battery is isolated from the primary with a device know as a battery isolator(http://www.cardomain.com/item/LITS200 that is not the best one but it was the first one i could find). The rest of the equipment runs off that secondary batter, ie; mac mini; amps; head unit; foot massager; fog machine; play station; disco balls; etc etc.

                    Now the purpose of doing this is so that you can run your stereo and all that fun stuff with the car off and not worry about the primary battery going dead, ie not being able to start your car.

                    So armed with this piece of equipment the mini's power consumption in sleep has no effect on the primary battery, which is what you were worried about right?


                    To answer the first question, trying to minimize the mini's sleep power consumption is a fairly daunting task. All things considered, if it was easy to do it Apple would have done it from the get go. I am not saying it is impossible, but damn if someone can pull it off....

                    Originally posted by vinthewrench
                    actually the solution is to write a task to set up a sleep notifier, when sleep occurs set up a wakeup timer to go off in say 1 hour, at that time shutdown the mac.. if wakeup occurs before that, then cancel the shutdown timer.

                    a good mac programmer should be able to handle it.

                    This is actually something the I will be incorporating into my project. Probably a relay style widget/phiget/midget what ever you want to call it :P that is hooked up to the ignition switched power.

                    I mean come on, 30s boot time is to long, in my opinion :P
                    BenjaminS
                    Powered by Imagination
                    http://www.ccarproject.net/

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                    • #11
                      30s is too long. Its why i wanted a mac in my car from the getgo, way before the macmini was a glimmer in Steve Jobs's eyes.

                      CUz all the threads i was reading were about slimming down Windoze to get it to startup faster than 120s and wake from hibernate in less than 30s. My agruement was a mac in sleep to wake is 5s tops, and I got flamed for it cuz everyone said SLEEP takes more watts than hibernate and thusly why it takes longer.

                      And my arguement, like here, is **** that GET A SECOND BATTERY and bam yu can get in yer car, turn the key and faster than any aftermarket head unit can turn on, spin the CD and go (beep beep, listen VERY VERY closely many HU beep internally when accessing a CD from startup) you are already driving with yer MP3s playing from yer mini.
                      (All done)
                      iPad Mini 128GB, RF 600.5 amp, JL12W0V2, 8 Infinity Components

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'm so stupid I'll answer this. It's not going to make any difference, but I'll answer it.

                        I don't want a second battery in my car. It's small and the trunk is REALLY small. The computer is in the trunk and already takes up a lot of space. Putting a battery in there complicates the set up and takes up too much room.

                        The passenger compartment, front and back seats are used daily and have no space for a battery. The only practical place I could put a reasonable sized battery for sleep is in the engine compartment and I'm not sure it will fit in there.
                        Originally posted by ghettocruzer
                        I was gung ho on building a PC [until] just recently. However, between my new phone having internet and GPS and all...and this kit...Im starting to have trouble justfiying it haha.
                        Want to:
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by sdashiki
                          And my arguement, like here, is **** that GET A SECOND BATTERY and bam yu can get in yer car, turn the key and faster than any aftermarket head unit can turn on, spin the CD and go (beep beep, listen VERY VERY closely many HU beep internally when accessing a CD from startup) you are already driving with yer MP3s playing from yer mini.
                          Wow. Allow me to get offended. YOU DONT ******* GET IT. Stop blithering and read before you reply.

                          Having a second battery doesn't get you to the 18+V that the Mac Mini needs to wake up from sleep. Mike explained this to you in detail, but you are so hung up on your brilliant idea you refuse to listen to it.

                          Mike, I think the situation is a little more complicated than would be ideal. Yes there are several ways to tweak power consumption in OSX, but they're not going to get you there. Like you said, its not so much the consumption as the +18V issue. Perhaps more serious hardware modifications to the Mini itself? I know its not ideal from a product perspective, but I'm really just grasping for straws. The various bits you're going to be able to twiddle to change power consumption aren't going to get you the last mile with this problem.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I haven't been keeping up on this all that closely, but is the issue getting the mini to wake from sleep at all, or just with the car off?

                            The second battery idea will help those that use their systems without the car running or for those who go on 2 week vacations and can't remember to shut down the system before they leave, but it sounds like the mini has some power requirements that make it more difficult to power.

                            Is there a reason that people are going the mini route over a used laptop? Seemed like a natural choice for me when I was deciding on what to get...though the mini wasn't out then. Mini would be much faster than my Pismo G3 500, but the built in battery will make my life much easier.
                            Thanks,

                            Joe

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              “Wow. Allow me to get offended. YOU DONT ******* GET IT. Stop blithering and read before you reply.”

                              Come on let’s play nice : )

                              “Having a second battery doesn't get you to the 18+V that the Mac Mini needs to wake up from sleep.”

                              DC to DC converter, no?

                              Anywho, I had an interesting thought coming home from work today. As you may or may not know os x uses a virtual memory system, ie when it runs out of ram it writes to the hard drive. Perhaps someone could do some serious hacking of os x so that when sleep is called the memory gets dumped to the hard drive, and when it waked it is restored. This could possibly help during sleep because you don’t need to worry about the memories state, well atleast all of the memory, you only need to keep that one pointer to the location of the rest of the memory. Eh pretty far fetched idea... probably doesn't hold water, but who knows anything is possible.
                              BenjaminS
                              Powered by Imagination
                              http://www.ccarproject.net/

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