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  • Engine control through carputer

    So im doing some research and need some advice here,

    I am looking at controling my engine useing my carputer, Yes the starting the car with you thumb print has been talked about and shot down almost every time it has come up. So i just want to make it clear, i really dont care what you want or what you think you would want im designing this for me. Dont get me wrong i love input but dont flame me because you think its a stupid idea.

    Car setup:

    Installing a two way autopage unit with good range.
    Decent carputer setup in the works for decent load times.
    Thinking about thumb print reader but will probably jsut go with numeric lock.

    my idea of the working system.

    As i leave to get into my car i hit the unlock button, doors unlock and send boot signal to power supply, comp boots, i sitdown close or right at the time the screen for entering a number sequence, it asks me i want to power car up or just turn on acc.

    I need so split this... i have a realy board controled by usb, this will provide basics for ignition system since i mean to use this to overide the sock and at some point just move the switch but not remove.

    Acc mode will be so that i can run the computer with out the main stuff coming on i.e. fans defrost all that.

    Power car up will be like turning the car to the on position.

    The actual starting of the car will be done manualy by button to limit overrun or short starts, but the button will have the power inturuped by the relay board.

    So once the car is started then nothing more will need to be done.

    To turn the car off i not quite decided i could put in a kill switch that wold intrupt the ignition causeing the engine to die and thus sending a signal to the comp to turn off, or i could tie it into the comp turning off so that i hit a power down button that the car stops when the comp kills the engine. Neither are quite pretty but im leaning towards the first since my car is a manual and i may want to park in gear which the second option would possible make me wait.


    So i guess what im really struggleing with right now is this, I need to make a program that would either A load before the front end allowing me to unlock the car persay or actualy use the frontend and have a pop up that would do this.

    I am for lack of a better term ok with visual basic, i guess if i wanted i could make a entire frontend, but i was wondering if there is already a good front end that would lend itself to this i would rather go that route, why try and reinvent the wheel when its sitting right infront of me.

    I know there is a numeric screen lock for roadruner but from what i can get it dosent actualy load before it is booted. maybe im wrong

    Any advice besides make my own?

    Thank You

  • #2
    I think you're in make your own territory here, however, if you want any help with the coding i'd be interested as it's quite a nice little project idea.

    One thing i really think is necessary is still being able to start the car the old fashioned way - just in case!

    I'm fluent in C++ and can hack my way around VB.NET, C#.NET and VC++.NET
    Dave Lewthwaite
    www.lewty.org.uk
    [email protected]

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    • #3
      Look into buying a cheap remote start kit. Some of them have "aux inputs" whcih allow you to start the car from a button press, that way the kit handles starting the car and monitoring engine rpm so it knows the car is started. That might make your life a bit easier.

      What you could do for software, is have a program load at windows startup instead of the frontend. Once you entered your code, the program would start the car and load the frontend.

      OR, have your program load, start the frontend, and keep it minimized, then once you enter your code it brings it back up. This might be a bit faster.

      Either way, I think having a second program might be easier than having something built into a frontend. Just my two cents
      "stop with the REINSTALLS, what do you think we got some lame-o installer!!!" - mitchjs
      RevFE
      My Shop

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      • #4
        Well, Two things hit me when i was reading your post, most of all security, as i understand you plan to just send an electrical signal from your PC via USB to the ignition control module, I am not familure with cars but I am fairly familure with PCs, Somebody with a laptop could board your vehicle and send the same signal down to the ICM and power it on without the security code. As for the unlock remote, are you planning to re-design it to send the boot command to the PSU or will you just use existing wiring? Also, do you plan to have internet running to this system? if so that raises another question, Hacking, Be extremely careful there as someone who is advanced enough could hack your system and cause you to wreck your vehicle, it would probably be a good idea to have an "emergency" over-ride key ignition hidden under the dash, when you turn the key it tells the computer to shut down and it takes control of the ignition signals. As for your idea of a biometric security system, i would suggest that for your car. jm2cw

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        • #5
          Originally posted by davelew99 View Post
          One thing i really think is necessary is still being able to start the car the old fashioned way - just in case!
          Ye Your very rightat first i will leave the ignition switch alone just by pass it. Once im confident of the program and t reliablility of the thing i will move it out of site in the glove box or something.

          I will defineatly hit you up for some help at soome point.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by malcom2073 View Post
            Look into buying a cheap remote start kit. Some of them have "aux inputs" whcih allow you to start the car from a button press, that way the kit handles starting the car and monitoring engine rpm so it knows the car is started. That might make your life a bit easier.

            What you could do for software, is have a program load at windows startup instead of the frontend. Once you entered your code, the program would start the car and load the frontend.

            OR, have your program load, start the frontend, and keep it minimized, then once you enter your code it brings it back up. This might be a bit faster.

            Either way, I think having a second program might be easier than having something built into a frontend. Just my two cents

            The aux input is a good idea but i dont know if i want to remote start units being as i am puting one in by Autopage but i dont think it has an aux input ill have to look.

            I think your right about the two seperate programs, Ill probably make it so the control loads, once the car is turned on or ACC is activated it will minimize
            so i can sontinue control of the usb board, or hmmm a circuit to keep a relay open.

            Actualy thats a good idea, probably a question for the hardware forum, But a small board or waht ever that when power burst is put into it it then triggers a relay and that relay will stay triggered till the circuit is open for 2 or 3 seconds or something so that if there is a slight surge or drop the ignition dosent cut out.

            But we ill just make it a loadering end so that it once the car is started it loads the frontend.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Zarakon View Post
              Well, Two things hit me when i was reading your post, most of all security, as i understand you plan to just send an electrical signal from your PC via USB to the ignition control module, I am not familure with cars but I am fairly familure with PCs, Somebody with a laptop could board your vehicle and send the same signal down to the ICM and power it on without the security code. As for the unlock remote, are you planning to re-design it to send the boot command to the PSU or will you just use existing wiring? Also, do you plan to have internet running to this system? if so that raises another question, Hacking, Be extremely careful there as someone who is advanced enough could hack your system and cause you to wreck your vehicle, it would probably be a good idea to have an "emergency" over-ride key ignition hidden under the dash, when you turn the key it tells the computer to shut down and it takes control of the ignition signals. As for your idea of a biometric security system, i would suggest that for your car. jm2cw
              Yes your right if someone wants to Disable my lapopt figure out the code to trigger the relays and then send the signal all while the Two way alarm is going off ( yes yes they dont always send the best signal and may not get it till it is still too late, none the lest its still and alarm) Yes it would be possible for them do this and steal my car.

              On the flip side if someone realy wants to steal my car they wolnt mess around with useing their own computer to by pass mine they will jsut hot wire it.

              As for hacking my computer.....while driveing i probably wolnt be conected to the internet since i will only have wifi, and with the addition of the trigger and hold relay system i think i will put in the computer will only be used to iniciate the system. And i hate to say it but who is really going to target my car while driveing...... its more likely that i will get adware or a virus while trying to look at porn and cause my comp to crash as opposed to someone launching a hacking attack against me as i drive...

              But yes your right with all system the more backups you have the better, i will more then likely jsut relocate the key when i im confidate the system works as designed.

              Oh almose forgot the unlock part will use one of the dc to psu units from the store side of mp3 car sorry cant remeber the name off the top of my head.



              Just a side note after i was thinking about the hacking of the car and causeing me to wreck.... Yes it could be bad if my engine turned off for what ever reason, but as a good driver i acutaly see how my car would handel if my engine were to ever stop before i get in an emergecy sittuation. And i always recomend others to do the same. Oh and yes im the type of person that finds a empty car lot and slide around in it when its icey and snowy.

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              • #8
                i know u said u wanted it before ur front end starts but isnt there a serial input/ouput plugin for road runner. It has the ability to do 2 outputs so you could just use one for car start and one for acc on.

                easy
                Core duo
                1tb harddrive
                256 ddr
                8 lilliput
                bu-353

                still installing...

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by 84RegalRider View Post
                  i know u said u wanted it before ur front end starts but isnt there a serial input/ouput plugin for road runner. It has the ability to do 2 outputs so you could just use one for car start and one for acc on.

                  easy
                  Is there? You wouldnt happen to know the name of it i looked for a pluging but had not such luck. It would be possible may have to rewite... i dealy i would like ever thing in the frontend but so far to do what i want the best option was looking like to seperate the two.

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                  • #10
                    http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/rr-p...rsion-3-a.html
                    Core duo
                    1tb harddrive
                    256 ddr
                    8 lilliput
                    bu-353

                    still installing...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I dont know why people have such a problem with the finger scanner idea, This will become a more available option from car makers in the future... just not sure how far.

                      As long as you have a lower powered 12v PC running 24/7 in your car, This is very possible.
                      The system itself needs to be able to run for weeks on end of goto into a standby mode after so many days and be woken up with a usb activity trigger. This may take you a few moments before you can then get in your car but if it has been left there for a few days most people can wait upto a few minutes.

                      The one different approach i am wanting to take on this will be to have the door locks shaved and have a IR finger print scanner that will scan a plastic coated block that will protect it from the weather and damage. Once the scan has been confirmed then it will allow the doors to unlock and enable the second security level to start the car with a dash scanner or keypad.

                      This will also allow for a few little trickery items as well, The first will be driver profiles..

                      Comfort/Setup/Time saver:
                      When the user scans finger and enters code: Seats/Mirrors/Aircon/Mp3 Choices adjust and so on

                      Security:
                      When the user enters the keypad code, There can be two codes.. The first is the usual that starts the car.
                      The second - Starts car and triggers a silent alarm like a phone call to cops *abduction*

                      Backup Systems:
                      Bluetooth - 100 meter range connectable via mobile/headset/laptop/pc
                      Wireless - Upload via shared folder a text document with password that is checked every minute
                      Keypad - Concealed keypad under car or something like that
                      Microphone - External voice commands / Voice prompts
                      Morsecode - Paintwork/ Panel touch sensor hook in


                      These are just a few examples of the backup systems, But if your worried about the computer running the battery flat or things like that then you can look at building a custom IC/AVS circuit to have one master override that would never fail as it would run at about 5v 0.2a

                      There are still alot things i would like to implement into my car but lack the time or funds, I have alot of this planned down on paper and theory proves right but wont confirm until practical.

                      But just a few things to ponder on.
                      2004 Holden WL Caprice Auto GENIII
                      Base System = Raspberry Pi
                      Everything else is pending for now as switched from a Mini-ITX setup

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                      • #12
                        I like you idea of a shaved door handle, with a finger print on the out side.


                        So i Ran into a problem well more of just a speed bump. I didnt realize but my eclipse has a chip in it, What through me off even more unlike the one that is in my parents car, i can even turn over the car with a spare with no chip it just wolnt start. I wasnt sure they were desigend to cut off the ignition as opposed to the the starter but the more i thought about it im gald since my car is a manual if it didnt cut off the ignition someone could roll it down a hill to get it started.

                        So im gonna have to figure out if i bypass it permanatly or if i figure out a way to use it for added security.

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                        • #13
                          You will not want to or should not bypass the chip, When you say chip i assume you mean the regular central computer for the car. If that is the case... You cant exactly bypass it as such..Not with out a little work... But then again dont know the setup it uses.

                          If it is a security chip, Then there should be no dramas in bypassing it. I beleive in a completely custom security system for the simple fact that a little crook will not know what is what and might wonder if there is something he missed like a GPS activated mobile that sends the coords to your own mobile.


                          By removing your main Engine chip, you have no access to the readings n info... the fun stuff that you can use to track use of your car and tell when someone else has thrashed it.
                          2004 Holden WL Caprice Auto GENIII
                          Base System = Raspberry Pi
                          Everything else is pending for now as switched from a Mini-ITX setup

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                          • #14
                            Just ment bypassing the security chip/ reader in the key,

                            I wolnt be going to the extreme of an aem ecu in this.... well not yet anyways ya never know beinag the fact that i have a comp in it already would be kinda cool seeing as i could change engine spec on the fly.

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                            • #15
                              What type of chip is in the key? If it a immobiliser type then i would maybe try removing the chip and having it installed into the dash so it is always in range.
                              2004 Holden WL Caprice Auto GENIII
                              Base System = Raspberry Pi
                              Everything else is pending for now as switched from a Mini-ITX setup

                              Comment

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