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  • has anyone thought of this for an app or plugin?

    hey all!

    decided to share my next great idea with all of you!

    has anyone seen or know of any posts for software that would match the following description (searching has been fruitless):

    A plugin for front end or standalone app that is made solely to share services between carpc users. I am imagining being able to share message level data and stream content between two or more carpc installs. carpc user x is driving in proximity to carpc y. x has a radar detector, a 3G broadband connection, lots of movie and music, etc. car y wants to access those services and that content. car x might run the server-side of said app and car y might run the client-side of said app. while car y is running the client and within range of x, car y could see all (and subscribe to) services that car x decides to share.

    Imagine being able to share radar detector alerts in a convoy of carpc users (search: valentine 1 virtual display or check out the new escort 9500i), or let multiple users share 1 persons net for minor web updates (email, weather, etc), or watch a movie that another user has shared, or listen to music that another user is listening to or has shared. The list goes on and on... transfer files, share camera streams (i might finally get a glimpse of what is causing all the f*%$#@! traffic jams!) including video conferencing between one or more clients carpcs, voice conferenceing, IM, think multiplayer lan games for passengers, etc, etc.

    I realize saturation of the app would have to reach a certain point before all the features could truly be realized or maximized.

    Thus, ideally, this app would be a standalone app that would play nicely with all major front ends as a plugin (sdk, skinable, launchable, configurable, etc). It would be nice if it could use any currently existing technology or application functionality, such as ichat for the vid-conferencing, blah blah.

    I'm with Sama, write it in Java!

    I am thinking that a wifi 802.11g/n AP would need to be in the server-side vehicle so that client apps could connect and be on a WLAN with the serving host.

    I could really see this as being a killer app... one that kills drivers who try to use it while driving! a good majority of functionality (sharing content, games, etc) intended for passengers, with some left for drivers (message based communiques).

    What do you think? Discuss...

    -ikon

  • #2
    Very interesting idea, but carputers are not saturated enough for this to be of everyday use at this moment.
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    • #3
      meh

      here are some current uses given the lack of saturation:
      company cars, school vehicles, carpc meets, wife/husband with two cars and two carputers, two friends/room mates with carpc's wanting to roadtrip on vacation. radar sharing and video conf would be stellar. hell you could even write a virtual NMEA driver and stream GPS coordinates to a client (granted they would see your position not theirs, but they'd be within wifi range, so it might be close enough for general purpose.). Think carpc meets in bigger cities. Easily exchange apps, music, photos, files, etc. Get 10 cars playing the same stream and crank it up!

      The reality is, even if you know at least one other person with a carpc and frequent the same streets, a good majority of this app could still be useful (ie just between two users). And, if it worked with the top 5 major front ends, we'd be in business. Consider at least 6 months from now for application development and you only end up with more and more carpcs on the road.

      What you really need to do though, is get the auto makers on board so that more carpcs would be available.

      I'd be interested in hearing more feedback.

      -ikon

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      • #4
        I guess with the decreasing cost of cellular internet, the internet would be a better medium for this, as opposed to proximity and 802.11g/n. I'm guessing that by the time this idea got anywhere close to being a reality, it would be superceded by actually having access to the internet, and storing any relevant information there, where everyone could get to it. Just my 2 cents though.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by msjonker View Post
          I guess with the decreasing cost of cellular internet, the internet would be a better medium for this, as opposed to proximity and 802.11g/n. I'm guessing that by the time this idea got anywhere close to being a reality, it would be superceded by actually having access to the internet, and storing any relevant information there, where everyone could get to it. Just my 2 cents though.
          The only problem with that is that cellular internet is not really fast enough for this....

          Rafster
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          • #6
            I think its a cool idea for the purposes of internet sharing, IM, video conferencing. Especially in a convoy or carpc meet situation. Probably not very practical while driving, looking for services on the surrounding cars.
            The radar detecting part i think would work well, if someone ahead of you detects a cop and broadcasts that fact with GPS coordinates and then it shows up on your GPS map to alert you when you get near.

            I think its a good idea for future features as mentioned above, how likely you are to find another road user with a carpc sharing services.
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            • #7
              I've thought about this a few years ago. This was the way I imagined CarPCs evolving. The wireless Inet capability is there now, but I still don't see it up to par yet with this becoming a reality.

              Fortunately, I think if you started on working on this system now, by the time you get it up and running, wireless 3g etc will be more common. I think most ppl use their cell phone connections either as novelty, or to log on and download email or check email. (So as not to use up many minutes/data)

              But once the price drops even more on cell phone data packages and more CarPC friendly modems or whatever come around, I think this will be very popular.
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              • #8
                i think the saturation would take a very long time to see the fruits of the labor. But.... it would be cool if a small app was written that would scan for another car and tell you if someone close to you has a carputer. Like a server and client you install. The server will look for other clients and report back. The client would accept the handshake and report back info that you have specified from a text file, like "im the guy in the black vw". Something simple like this should be fairly easy to do, and maybe one day you'll happen to find someone.

                I remember at least one time, and this had to be pure luck, i was driving at night on the highway and drove pass a guy who just happened to running frodoplayer with my skin. He exited off the highway before i could get his attention though. Ive seen a few other people with carputers in there rides while out and about, but now a days its a bit hard to tell if its a carputer , oem satnav or just a fancy radio.
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by msjonker View Post
                  I guess with the decreasing cost of cellular internet, the internet would be a better medium for this, as opposed to proximity and 802.11g/n. I'm guessing that by the time this idea got anywhere close to being a reality, it would be superceded by actually having access to the internet, and storing any relevant information there, where everyone could get to it. Just my 2 cents though.
                  This doesn't make sense to me. 802.11b/g/n has way more through put than today's mobile net options. good luck streaming content (video, music, etc) to two other cars with 300kbps bandwidth, let alone the latency issues. Wifi is the way to go because you get high bandwidth in short proximity... ideal for car "mesh" networks. Why would i want to push radar alerts to the internet only to have someone 20 feet away get it and be alerted? What if net went out or wasn't available? Then the whole system wouldn't work.

                  The utility of this system would not be contingent on net at all... net would only add functionality. If i have 500 divx movies in my car and you want to watch one in your car while we both drive from Minnesota to Florida, why do you need net for anything?

                  I agree, when mobile net becomes more pervasive, the system can only get better. As for the current state, the app assumes people are their own content providers and simply provides a way for two cars within range to exchange data SPECIFICALLY with out the need for net.

                  Sorry to bring the boom stick :-) just my reply to your two cents!

                  -ikon

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ikon240 View Post
                    This doesn't make sense to me. 802.11b/g/n has way more through put than today's mobile net options. good luck streaming content (video, music, etc) to two other cars with 300kbps bandwidth, let alone the latency issues. Wifi is the way to go because you get high bandwidth in short proximity... ideal for car "mesh" networks. Why would i want to push radar alerts to the internet only to have someone 20 feet away get it and be alerted? What if net went out or wasn't available? Then the whole system wouldn't work.

                    The utility of this system would not be contingent on net at all... net would only add functionality. If i have 500 divx movies in my car and you want to watch one in your car while we both drive from Minnesota to Florida, why do you need net for anything?

                    I agree, when mobile net becomes more pervasive, the system can only get better. As for the current state, the app assumes people are their own content providers and simply provides a way for two cars within range to exchange data SPECIFICALLY with out the need for net.

                    Sorry to bring the boom stick :-) just my reply to your two cents!

                    -ikon

                    With what you're wanting to do, you are correct. The internet would not be good for it. But what happens if you're sharing a movie and the person you're sharing with moves out of range or you get separated? What happens if there is interference? If you're interested in sharing apps or small programs like that, the internet would be a better option.

                    Your idea about the radar is a very good one. It would be cool to have that functionality.

                    While this may be practical for you as you may travel with someone else that has a car PC frequently, its probably going to be hard to find other people where this is the case, and to find people that would benefit from this app and also want to, or are able to, work on this app. It will be a very big undertaking putting something together like this, especially if you want to interface other devices, such as radar detectors.

                    Not trying to tear your idea down, it would definitely be cool. Just trying to point out some of the shortfalls of relying on proximity and how that can limit your application.

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                    • #11
                      Yes, the application would most definitely need some extensive testing. I would hope that 802.11n would be good enough as long as two parties were within 300 feet of each other. This app would most apt at vehicles within that range, more specifically for vehicles only within that range. wasn't tryin to be harsh earlier, I appreciate the feedback!

                      -ikon

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                      • #12
                        What i think would be great is the whole driving down the freeway and one guys spots a cop with his radar detector and that would get sent back to the car 300 feet behind him then sent to the car 300 feet behind him and so on. Plus freeway line of site....WiFi can go farther then 300 feet outside. Upcomming traffic jams would also be great to report to all surounding cars based off the gps of said sender.

                        Maybe some P2P program that auto connects and keeps track of incomming network traffic with some type of ID number and mac address so that it can repeat the information to other carputers. Then you filter the ID so you dont get it sent back to you. First in First out type database that the user can specify file size. That way it wont get to big and you wont get the same info over and over again.

                        Even better { ID, MAC, UserName, Date, Time, Type of info, Info, Extra, Comments}

                        Then you could just filter anything more then an hour or two old. and not pass on the info after a given time.

                        edit: okay for added fun. GPS locator and then the data can be sent online to other users within said range. 20 miles etc

                        I cant wait to see what you come up with ikon240
                        Um, I guess this is where you put something witty.WITTY

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                        • #13
                          exactly

                          profit,
                          exactly! there is a newer wifi protocol, 802.11p (thinking the spec was supposed to finalize right about now). the spec is for automotive communications... check it out (i haven't searched to see if anyone has mentioned it on this forum... i would be surprised if it hadn't been discussed).

                          DOT is already working on some things such as safety systems and iPass with this protocol. I get in an accident, my car sends a beacon, the car behind me gets a message and so it propagates in all directions so long as there is a string of cars within range. OR, i just drive thru the ipass, my cars chipset with 802.11p knows all my info and makes the necessary payments.

                          the problem is if we leave it to automakers, the market for this software will be 10 years away... when in fact, the market will be ready for it within 2-5 years if it isn't already.

                          I have been working with java for the last year and half and I recently took a position as a flash/actionscript developer, so I am hoping to combine the skills to create something. Sama has a good project started (velocity) that uses a java server backend and a flash skin for the front end, so I suppose I will start there.

                          more later...

                          -ikon

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                          • #14
                            I know for a fact that with the right RF WiFi and the Right Antenna you can transmit up to 10 miles easy. The only problem for cars is line of site. After a mile or so you get curviture of the earth and would need the antenna up higher. Also the 10 mile setups have directional dish transiever.

                            Anyways, i see more of some type of Peer to Peer communication between cars. So that all systems could transmit and recieve data. Not sure how they would be able to multi connect without a router. That should be your first concern. Get like 4 WiFi adapters and try to get them all talking to each other without a router! Otherwise everyone needs a router and a WiFi card.

                            Maybe 802.11P has that capability built in.

                            Okay i did some more searching and found this virtual WiFi program that microsoft released. It's only beta but if they finish it it would be perfect for carputers. More then just this application. Imagine being able to connect to every WiFi you drive by! Just adding it here for future refrence.

                            http://research.microsoft.com/netres...fi/default.htm
                            edit: http://research.microsoft.com/mesh/ <-- another good site on this software

                            edit: im just going to add to this since mp3car forums would just auto combine anyways. Must be new feature

                            Anyways, hahahahaha check this image out. Microsofts website with an image of some microsoft research guys desktop and netscape is loaded on it

                            http://research.microsoft.com/netres...ifi_screen.bmp
                            Um, I guess this is where you put something witty.WITTY

                            My Web site, in the design stage. http://home.comcast.net/~cstrachn

                            Modified RRSkinEditor http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=65723

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                            • #15
                              some more info, thoughts

                              first of all,
                              802.11s - mesh networking!!
                              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11s
                              http://www.techworld.com/mobility/fe...?FeatureID=695

                              second, some more info on 802.11p
                              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11p

                              looks like p is a better choice for car, just a matter of time and implementation and money, same as everything else.

                              pretty solid description - just no consumer market for software... yet!

                              gentlemen, i presume the time is near.

                              -ikon

                              Get like 4 WiFi adapters and try to get them all talking to each other without a router! Otherwise everyone needs a router and a WiFi card.
                              yes, worst case, first editions would likely require a router IF you wanted to be the server/host. Otherwise, the client end would just need a wifi card to connect to those with a router.

                              the way i see, there are two types of carpc users. those that want a basic setup and those that do lots of R&D and are always changing their setup with the next best thing. What good would it do for the average user to have a router and serve, if they didn't have a net connection to share, nor radar, nor cameras, nor GPS, etc. Basically if you have all the bells and whistles you won't mind adding < $100 in hardware wiring (router+) and an antenna. I plan to do just this by replacing my terrestrial radio power antenna with something resembling a range extender higher gain router upgrade antenna (connected to a router of course).

                              one case that an average user might like would be the music and movie sharing, but i guess that is the cost :-/

                              -ikon

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