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  • Wi-Fi and Concrete Walls

    Dear Fellows,

    Good Day,

    What I have to ask, as far as I have been in researching work, I heared and read that WiFi signals go down while using the wireless network in a concrete building/home.

    Actually we are a group of friends who needs to use internet. So we thought to use the Wireless Network System.By doing this we want to establish not only to share internet but to develop a Local Area Network.

    I have tried it at my home practically, in my home there are three floors, I setup my router in ground floor, and two computers with Wireless USB device at each floor. The reception on each computer I was getting is 21% to 34% on first floor and 15% to 20% at third floor.

    Now I am getting the problem to share this to my other friends, who are living in between about 300 Yards in Radius with concret walls/housing system.

    Does anyone can guide me, how to use WiFi in conceret area, keeping in mind the distance I have mentioned above?

    Does WiFi amplifire can be very helpful to do the hard by penetrating the concret walls?

    If yes then how much powerfull amplifire I need?

    Any other solution if somebody have, are welcome.

    Why I am insisting in WiFi because it give a Huge Data Transfer facility so we can share movies, documents, research data etc etc..

    Thanks and Regards,

    Waqar

  • #2
    Run wire. Microwaves and concrete, wire mesh, and rebar, don't mix well.
    Failure is not an option....



    It's installed by default on every version of Windows.

    Comment


    • #3


      It will be cheaper, and most likely easier, to run Cat5.

      That doesn't mean it can't be done, but it will be much easier this way.

      Michael
      ...I love the French language...especially to curse with...Nom de Dieu de putain de bordel de merde de saloperies de connards d'enculés de ta mère. You see, it's like wiping your *** with silk, I love it.

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      • #4
        um correct me if im wrong but theres 3 feet in a yard, so 300yards = 900ft. you cant run cat5 that far without a repeater. you wont get a signal
        [::::::::::] 100% - Planning
        [::::::::::] 80% - Computer
        [::::::::::] 0% - Fabbing
        CarPC:
        SP13000 / 120GB SATA 2.5" / 512MB DDR
        8" Innovatek TS / Globalsat BU-353 / Engenius EUB-362 EXT
        Slot load DVDRW / PS3 Wireless Keyboard

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        • #5
          If you get a spare dish (like for satelite TV), you can make a highly directional transmitter. Then if you get another dish, you can get about 10 miles out of wifi.

          Look here for more info: http://www.wwc.edu/~frohro/Airport/P...Primestar.html

          Since you only need a 1/5th of a mile, then that is probably overkill. Something like this: http://www.instructables.com/id/EQAR...HTHU/?ALLSTEPS seems to be the defacto standard "hack", Basically a pasta strainer with some cable! Good to direct your signal towards your friends. Then they will get a signal far away.

          In both designs though, it is unidirectional. It transmits infront of the "cone" part. So if you are to the sides, to far up/down, behind, then no signal. If you are ligned up, then you are good to go.
          Fusion Brain Version 6 Released!
          1.9in x 2.9in -- 47mm x 73mm
          30 Digital Outputs -- Directly drive a relay
          15 Analogue Inputs -- Read sensors like temperature, light, distance, acceleration, and more
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          • #6
            speaking of that i found this on thinkgeek
            http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/accessories/7060/
            [::::::::::] 100% - Planning
            [::::::::::] 80% - Computer
            [::::::::::] 0% - Fabbing
            CarPC:
            SP13000 / 120GB SATA 2.5" / 512MB DDR
            8" Innovatek TS / Globalsat BU-353 / Engenius EUB-362 EXT
            Slot load DVDRW / PS3 Wireless Keyboard

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            • #7
              Originally posted by AllThingsEnd View Post
              speaking of that i found this on thinkgeek
              http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/accessories/7060/
              Yup. Same principle. Anything metallic and dish or cylindrical.

              Basically they sell a $50 painted pringles can.

              You can make one really easy with a can of juice or something. The metal cans one. Poke through a wire, and voila. (sorta)
              Fusion Brain Version 6 Released!
              1.9in x 2.9in -- 47mm x 73mm
              30 Digital Outputs -- Directly drive a relay
              15 Analogue Inputs -- Read sensors like temperature, light, distance, acceleration, and more
              Buy now in the MP3Car.com Store

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by AllThingsEnd View Post
                um correct me if im wrong but theres 3 feet in a yard, so 300yards = 900ft. you cant run cat5 that far without a repeater. you wont get a signal
                You aren't going to broadcast 900 feet through concrete either. You could run fiber. Or hire a professional installer to do it right. No need to cook the pigeons out of the air.
                Failure is not an option....



                It's installed by default on every version of Windows.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Concrete has nothing to do with it. It is the reedbar inside that interferes. Phones, microwaves, and other such things.

                  And as I pointed out earlier, with the right equiptment you can broadcast in the range of 15km or more.
                  Fusion Brain Version 6 Released!
                  1.9in x 2.9in -- 47mm x 73mm
                  30 Digital Outputs -- Directly drive a relay
                  15 Analogue Inputs -- Read sensors like temperature, light, distance, acceleration, and more
                  Buy now in the MP3Car.com Store

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    actually what you can do is all of you get outdoor wifi antennas. place them on the highest part of your roof and you all should be good.
                    [::::::::::] 100% - Planning
                    [::::::::::] 80% - Computer
                    [::::::::::] 0% - Fabbing
                    CarPC:
                    SP13000 / 120GB SATA 2.5" / 512MB DDR
                    8" Innovatek TS / Globalsat BU-353 / Engenius EUB-362 EXT
                    Slot load DVDRW / PS3 Wireless Keyboard

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      He is trying to transfer 900+ ft. With a regular omnidirectional high decibal antenna, he will maybe get 250ft before the speed becomes exponentially slower. Around 500-600ft, you will be using the edge of the network at 1mb/s max. If the purpose is to share a high speed internet connection, that would be horrible.

                      So either run a cable, or a high power uni-directional. Roof top will get better range, but still not the long distance he wants.
                      Fusion Brain Version 6 Released!
                      1.9in x 2.9in -- 47mm x 73mm
                      30 Digital Outputs -- Directly drive a relay
                      15 Analogue Inputs -- Read sensors like temperature, light, distance, acceleration, and more
                      Buy now in the MP3Car.com Store

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        His post states he's in a multi-story concrete building. A high gain antenna on the roof won't help a damn bit. Wire the buildings, then use the directional antennas to link them. We use 5Ghz and 2.4Ghz links to link out schools up here. I think our longest shot is 10 miles.
                        Failure is not an option....



                        It's installed by default on every version of Windows.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thanks

                          Thank you very much all of you. I think I havent made mistake by coming on this forum, where the people like you come and discuss the things.

                          Dear Friends! WhatI think if something is invented to work for the people, it is not limited to the use in a traditional way. If I am asking to use WiFi in concrete buildings and houses then there must be some kind of solution to do the same.

                          Here What i am thinking about this. We are using traditional indoor router units which has limited throughput power that is something around 50mW to 100mW in theritical but in practicle when we use in concrete based housing system it comes to 20mW to 30mW in general depends on current deployment situation.

                          In my mind one question just arrived immediately after reading your views. Why can't we use Industrial Outdoor Access Points to give the users the internet service?

                          Like for example if we use Senao's SL-2511HS PLUS HotSpot / AP, which gives us the coverage about 25km in theory for outdoor use (and yes ofcourse this is to be use with P2P solution.), with a high gain Omni Antenna placed on the mini tower at the rooftop of my home. Which replays a high throughput to penetrate in concrete walls. The users then just connect to the AP in a traditional way by USB Adapter or PCI/PCIMCIA Adapters to share and connect through the AP to use internet and other facilities.

                          What do you say? Is this applicable? or at the user end, the user should also have to use about 200mW or 400mW USB or PCI adapters to penetrate concrete walls also from inside of thier home?

                          Why I am saying this, you normally used the Cell phones, they are wireless as well and they operate on 800/900/1800 Mhz frequency, but they operate and use everywhere. And the cell phones is itself also giving the throughput of arround 600mW (Theoritically or Practically I don't know).

                          So What do you say about that Idea?


                          Waiting for your replies..

                          Thanks

                          Waqar

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by dhundlachand View Post
                            Thank you very much all of you. I think I havent made mistake by coming on this forum, where the people like you come and discuss the things.

                            Dear Friends! WhatI think if something is invented to work for the people, it is not limited to the use in a traditional way. If I am asking to use WiFi in concrete buildings and houses then there must be some kind of solution to do the same.

                            Here What i am thinking about this. We are using traditional indoor router units which has limited throughput power that is something around 50mW to 100mW in theritical but in practicle when we use in concrete based housing system it comes to 20mW to 30mW in general depends on current deployment situation.

                            In my mind one question just arrived immediately after reading your views. Why can't we use Industrial Outdoor Access Points to give the users the internet service?

                            Like for example if we use Senao's SL-2511HS PLUS HotSpot / AP, which gives us the coverage about 25km in theory for outdoor use (and yes ofcourse this is to be use with P2P solution.), with a high gain Omni Antenna placed on the mini tower at the rooftop of my home. Which replays a high throughput to penetrate in concrete walls. The users then just connect to the AP in a traditional way by USB Adapter or PCI/PCIMCIA Adapters to share and connect through the AP to use internet and other facilities.

                            What do you say? Is this applicable? or at the user end, the user should also have to use about 200mW or 400mW USB or PCI adapters to penetrate concrete walls also from inside of thier home?

                            Why I am saying this, you normally used the Cell phones, they are wireless as well and they operate on 800/900/1800 Mhz frequency, but they operate and use everywhere. And the cell phones is itself also giving the throughput of arround 600mW (Theoritically or Practically I don't know).

                            So What do you say about that Idea?


                            Waiting for your replies..

                            Thanks

                            Waqar
                            Lower frequencies penetrate better. That's why you still get cell coverage in the house. I wouldn't want to sit anywhere near a high power wifi adapter for very long. The client adapters might be able to hear the seano, but they wouldn't be able to talk back. I still think you need to find a local networking guy to come out and look at what you want to do. Remember wifi is microwave, the exact same frequency as that big box in your kitchen. True it's lower power, but sitting that close to the antenna isn't good for you.
                            Failure is not an option....



                            It's installed by default on every version of Windows.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by BarryWoods View Post
                              Lower frequencies penetrate better. That's why you still get cell coverage in the house. I wouldn't want to sit anywhere near a high power wifi adapter for very long. The client adapters might be able to hear the seano, but they wouldn't be able to talk back. I still think you need to find a local networking guy to come out and look at what you want to do. Remember wifi is microwave, the exact same frequency as that big box in your kitchen. True it's lower power, but sitting that close to the antenna isn't good for you.
                              Yes wifi is on the same microwave frequency but the power ratings are substansually different, the microwave oven produces 700w of power and the radios only produce between 100mw to 400mw, less than .1 % of the oven.

                              So the simularities end at the same frequency range unless you use a high power amp with a high gain antenna pointed directly at yourself and even then it will come nowhere near the power of an oven.

                              If it was a true microwave radio link then this would be different.

                              For a 900 foot link then a standard radio on both ends using good quality outdoor antennas then the link between the two buildings are connected, after that if the signal is week in the house of concrete (which it will probably be) then you could look at using a small switch and placing an access point on each floor of the house of concrete, from the main access point.

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