Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Episode 2

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Episode 2

    Just listened to podcast number 2....don't take this the wrong way guys but can you do a little research before you discuss some of these topics.

    A few corrections...because I have a feeling this is going to confuse some listeners:
    • No Cars are steer-by-wire, safety legislation in quite a few countries prevents anything other then electric assist.
    • 384MB of RAM? thats really your advice?
    • Memory latency has nothing to do with memory size
    • CPU Speed has nothing to do with hibernation resume times, its system bus speed
    • 2x as much ram does not mean 2x slower resume (google: memory pages)
    • OM never claimed CF didn't use any hardware rendering...it uses a combination of directX and software rendering (or all software rendering if effects are disabled) which obviously uses more CPU then 100% hardware rendering
    • Pulseaudio sounds better? you sure its not just that warm fuzzy feeling you get from running linux? 24bit audio is 24bit audio... the only difference is the decoders. Except everyone uses the same open source decoder for flac so it can't be that either.
    • For the thousandth time-trip was running OM without video drivers on the iGep-of course its going to be slow.... C# may be slower with serious number crunching but last I checked we're not doing physics simulations in the car. Not to mention almost all our graphics code is unmanaged.
    • Qt cross-platform development != all cross platform development
    • 30 active front ends? try 6
    • Mike-you haven't seen anyone separate the GUI from the backend?? I seem to recall a front end that runs each plugin in a separate thread and runs nothing but the GUI in the gui thread. Come on dude we've discussed this!
    • You can't close source GPLv3 code...no matter what. Did the biggest open source supporters on the forums really suggest that?
    • Hmm front end with cross-platform media playback engine written from scratch-nope CF uses Bass and WMP...OM is the only one that does. No we don't use mplayer or any other external app-that would be slow and unstable.

    On the other hand:
    • Tidder props for memorizing the model names lol
    • Tidder - Thank you for setting the record straight on quite a few issues
    • Microsoft Bob-lmao
    • regurgitate was a much better word choice then reiterate
    openMobile - An open source C# Front End (why choose openMobile?)
    - Always Recruiting Developers -
    Like what you see? Donations are always welcome

  • #2
    Originally posted by justchat_1 View Post
    Just listened to podcast number 2....don't take this the wrong way guys but can you do a little research before you discuss some of these topics.

    A few corrections...because I have a feeling this is going to confuse some listeners:

    *snip*
    First of all let me just say that most everything I said or had an opinion about comes from first-hand experience. There is no need for me to research it, it'd probably be posts of mine if I researched it anyway.

    Yes, in my experience and testing, PulseAudio sounds a lot more full and crisp than the same exact FLAC on windows. There is a lot of forum posts that support this idea. Windows mixer (kmixer) is a pile of junk. Talk to RedGTiVR6 about sound quality. I use windows and linux all the time. The warm-fuzzy left 3 or 4 years ago a little while after I first started using ubuntu. The only way to get this quality back out of windows is using ideas/solutions like ASIO drivers/programs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_Stream_Input/Output This is at least true for XP. Kmixer resamples EVERYTHING to 48khz, and does a horrible job at it. Vista and newer have a new mixer that apparently doesn't suffer from this. I don't want to run vista or newer in the car. I'd rather have a headless linux box in the trunk.

    Yes, 384mb ram in my experience has been the best exchange of speed vs ram size. Slimmed XP with RR, this has been perfect for me for a long time. I even turn off swap and have no issues. iGuidance, RR, web browsing, remote desktop, etc. No problems so far.

    I don't know that we were actually saying CPU speed affects resume times. This was more about installed ram sizes.

    What does OM use for the media engine? I was under the impression it uses WMP under windows since it only supports media types that WMP supports.

    We weren't talking about close sourcing GPL code, more like going commercial with closed source addons and support.

    And yes, thanks for the props. I pride myself on knowing exactly what hardware I've got or used in the past.
    Tidder

    Try RevFE
    The best resurrected frontend I've ever used, period.


    I Wish I could ban people

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Tidder View Post
      Yes, in my experience and testing, PulseAudio sounds a lot more full and crisp than the same exact FLAC on windows. There is a lot of forum posts that support this idea. Windows mixer (kmixer) is a pile of junk. Talk to RedGTiVR6 about sound quality. I use windows and linux all the time. The warm-fuzzy left 3 or 4 years ago a little while after I first started using ubuntu. The only way to get this quality back out of windows is using ideas/solutions like ASIO drivers/programs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_Stream_Input/Output This is at least true for XP. Kmixer resamples EVERYTHING to 48khz, and does a horrible job at it. Vista and newer have a new mixer that apparently doesn't suffer from this. I don't want to run vista or newer in the car. I'd rather have a headless linux box in the trunk.
      Your comparing pulseaudio (first available in 2007) to a 10 year old windows OS...obviously the technology will not be equal. If you compared it to vista or win7 you will find a superior audio system to even pulseaudio (not released until a year after vista rolled out the technology). Just want to make sure the records straight on that
      openMobile - An open source C# Front End (why choose openMobile?)
      - Always Recruiting Developers -
      Like what you see? Donations are always welcome

      Comment


      • #4
        Justin, we actually toyed with the idea of bringing you on. Perhaps you might want to sit in on the next one?

        [*]No Cars are steer-by-wire, safety legislation in quite a few countries prevents anything other then electric assist.
        Yeah I meant wire assist. You can use the assist to drive the vehicle though, with no human intervention required (we do it at my work that way)

        [*]Qt cross-platform development != all cross platform development
        No, but it is the only one we have experience with, and its arguably the most advanced out there.

        [*]Mike-you haven't seen anyone separate the GUI from the backend?? I seem to recall a front end that runs each plugin in a separate thread and runs nothing but the GUI in the gui thread. Come on dude we've discussed this!
        Maybe it got lost in the editing, but I said I wasn't entirely sure how openmobile handled this, and it was all I could attribute the slowness issues I had due to ignorance of how it works internally.
        "stop with the REINSTALLS, what do you think we got some lame-o installer!!!" - mitchjs
        RevFE
        My Shop

        Comment


        • #5
          Just finished Episode 2, Tidder was a nice addition and you guys did a good job not talking over each other. Keep up the good work, I'm enjoying it.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by justchat_1 View Post
            Your comparing pulseaudio (first available in 2007) to a 10 year old windows OS...obviously the technology will not be equal. If you compared it to vista or win7 you will find a superior audio system to even pulseaudio (not released until a year after vista rolled out the technology). Just want to make sure the records straight on that
            I would need something substantial to prove that to me. I'm not impressed with windows 7 at all, especially for car use. Playback of FLAC under 7 also stutters on my D945GCLF2, no matter what player or codec I try. ALSA and PulseAudio are still better imo. There is no record to set straight, podcasts aren't set in stone facts. They are fact-supported or experience-supported opinions from knowledgeable people. But what you are doing is exactly the response I wanted from the community on a lot of the topics I brought up... "What?! No way, Tidder's an idiot..." and then they'll research it for themselves and gain something.
            Tidder

            Try RevFE
            The best resurrected frontend I've ever used, period.


            I Wish I could ban people

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Machinehead View Post
              Just finished Episode 2, Tidder was a nice addition and you guys did a good job not talking over each other. Keep up the good work, I'm enjoying it.
              Well thanks! And I must say... we talked over each other a lot... my master editing skills really turned this into a nice podcast. Sorry about Mike's volume level, we'll get better.
              Tidder

              Try RevFE
              The best resurrected frontend I've ever used, period.


              I Wish I could ban people

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Tidder View Post
                I would need something substantial to prove that to me. I'm not impressed with windows 7 at all, especially for car use. Playback of FLAC under 7 also stutters on my D945GCLF2, no matter what player or codec I try. ALSA and PulseAudio are still better imo. There is no record to set straight, podcasts aren't set in stone facts. They are fact-supported or experience-supported opinions from knowledgeable people. But what you are doing is exactly the response I wanted from the community on a lot of the topics I brought up... "What?! No way, Tidder's an idiot..." and then they'll research it for themselves and gain something.
                I tried Win7 in the car recently, there's not much advantage to using it over XP. I also has issues with sutters and pops in the audio, but my particular issue was I believe due to poor driver support for by M-Audio than anything else. I wouldn't mind having hybrid sleep available to me as an option, but not at the expense of audio quality.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by justchat_1 View Post
                  [LIST][*]No Cars are steer-by-wire, safety legislation in quite a few countries prevents anything other then electric assist.
                  -Sorry, that was me

                  Originally posted by justchat_1 View Post
                  [*]Memory latency has nothing to do with memory size
                  -I wish I could prove this, but I can't at the moment.

                  Originally posted by justchat_1 View Post
                  [*]30 active front ends? try 6
                  -Well, approx in usage. Active as in meaning still having users, not in dev.

                  Originally posted by justchat_1 View Post
                  [*] Microsoft Bob-lmao
                  -Im a dork, sorry.....

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ioi8 View Post
                    -I wish I could prove this, but I can't at the moment.
                    I wish I could prove the sky is purple....
                    "stop with the REINSTALLS, what do you think we got some lame-o installer!!!" - mitchjs
                    RevFE
                    My Shop

                    Comment


                    • #11


                      You're welcome.
                      Originally posted by ghettocruzer
                      I was gung ho on building a PC [until] just recently. However, between my new phone having internet and GPS and all...and this kit...Im starting to have trouble justfiying it haha.
                      Want to:
                      -Find out about the new iBug iPad install?
                      -Find out about carPC's in just 5 minutes? View the Car PC 101 video

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ioi8 View Post
                        I wish I could prove this, but I can't at the moment.
                        Its hard to prove something that isn't true
                        2GB:
                        http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820145246

                        4GB:
                        http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820145322

                        Look at the latency....you'll find the exact same results everywhere.

                        Originally posted by malcom2073 View Post
                        Justin, we actually toyed with the idea of bringing you on. Perhaps you might want to sit in on the next one?
                        Yea I would be happy to

                        Originally posted by Tidder View Post
                        I would need something substantial to prove that to me. I'm not impressed with windows 7 at all, especially for car use. Playback of FLAC under 7 also stutters on my D945GCLF2, no matter what player or codec I try. ALSA and PulseAudio are still better imo. There is no record to set straight, podcasts aren't set in stone facts. They are fact-supported or experience-supported opinions from knowledgeable people. But what you are doing is exactly the response I wanted from the community on a lot of the topics I brought up... "What?! No way, Tidder's an idiot..." and then they'll research it for themselves and gain something.
                        Theres nothing to "prove"...your comparing apples to apples. 24bit audio is 24bit audio, the whole point of FLAC is that those 24bits are identical on every platform. If your having audio issues then its probably the sound drivers. Seems stupid to blame an entire OS for a third parties inability to write a decent driver.

                        I'm just arguing with the whole "i drove a car once and it sucked so all cars must suck" philosophy here.
                        openMobile - An open source C# Front End (why choose openMobile?)
                        - Always Recruiting Developers -
                        Like what you see? Donations are always welcome

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by justchat_1 View Post
                          I'm just arguing with the whole "i drove a car once and it sucked so all cars must suck" philosophy here.
                          Its more like "I drove a Chevy cavalier and it sucked, and I can't afford a Corvette, so Chevy sucks"
                          "stop with the REINSTALLS, what do you think we got some lame-o installer!!!" - mitchjs
                          RevFE
                          My Shop

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by justchat_1 View Post
                            Theres nothing to "prove"...your comparing apples to apples. 24bit audio is 24bit audio, the whole point of FLAC is that those 24bits are identical on every platform. If your having audio issues then its probably the sound drivers. Seems stupid to blame an entire OS for a third parties inability to write a decent driver.

                            I'm just arguing with the whole "i drove a car once and it sucked so all cars must suck" philosophy here.
                            I never said FLAC was the issue. The OS is the issue.

                            I find it hard to believe that Intel can't provide decent sound drivers for their D945GCLF2 or D510MO, or that Jetway can't provide decent sound drivers for their JNC62K. I've experienced FLAC stutter with all three mobos under windows 7. Under XP and Ubuntu it works fine. Why would I fight with an OS or continue to replace hardware until I found something that worked?

                            Justin you have to realize something here. I'm a tech, this is what I do for a living. I've done it for a long time and I'm very good at it. I don't just try things once and say, "aww ****, didn't work, windows 7 must suck". I've tried many different machines, motherboards, soundcards, codecs, media players, and have always experienced sound issues under win7. You're right, it does seem stupid to blame the OS, but at this point it's either the OS or Realtek, Creative, nVidia, C-Media, etc all suck at writing decent drivers for win7. All this same hardware works fine under XP and ubuntu. XP just suffers from quality loss, so linux is the way to go for me. It seems stupid to me that you'd think I would only try it once and not troubleshoot.
                            Tidder

                            Try RevFE
                            The best resurrected frontend I've ever used, period.


                            I Wish I could ban people

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              When i installed 7 in my ride a few months back the very first thing i noticed was a difference in audio quality. Thats with a DG45FC, which i believe uses the exact same drivers as the D945GCLF. Of course i had to go into the audio manager settings and turn off all the default sound virtualization crap, but i LOVE the sound of my audio in the RSX now.
                              mp3Car.com Senior Tech Blogger (Want a product reviewed? Contact me.)
                              Follow Me on Twitter or Facebook
                              Live mp3Car Facebook Chat

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X