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Thread: Visteon HD reception woes

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nola111 View Post
    That's great PocketRadio. But the Visteon unit is also a normal analog AM/FM radio unit as well. If you choose the option for it to not even tune in HD stations, the reception is still horrible.
    "NPR story on HD radio startup"

    "Problems with the system that pervade the entire HD/IBOC data and codec from beginning to end, all the way to the signal on the air persist. The codec, by today's standards, is grossly inferior on FM and literally unspeakable on AM (gee, I had no idea). Since they're hardwired into the receivers, they won't be changed anytime soon, if ever. But it goes beyond that. There were bad choices of network layer such that reliability is compromised. The code used in exciters has a severe memory leak, so the exciters crash routinely. The receivers can be locked up solid by malformed packets, requiring a power cycle to restore operation. The list goes on and on and on. Will any of this get fixed? Probably not, since all the money right now is going to promotion, not to technical bug fixes. This is a system that has been in development for a decade and a half, and it still has problems from beginning to end that range from audio encoding, through the transport layers, to the encoding, and now, with the spectral regrowth problems, to the broadcast bands themselves; you know...that which is supposed to be serving the public. I would love to be implementing digital radio. But this is garbage."

    http://tinyurl.com/2kbzsn

    "Renowned Cambridge SoundWorks HD Radio Designer Explains HD Radio"

    "HD Radio broadcasts require a consistent, stronger signal than analog broadcasts... Below the minimum required signal le vel, the HD Radio program switches back to the analog signal... There is a limit to how far you can be from a transmitter and still receive an HD Radio transmission. For flat land with no obstructions, this limit could be as far away as 20-25 miles. For hilly terrain, the limit may drop to 10-15 miles. For the strongest signal within 20 miles of a radio transmitter, the user should position the provided 30 inch dipole antenna either horizontally or vertically along a wall or window."

    http://www.hdradio.com/the_buzz.php?thebuzz=87

    "Questions About High Definition HD Radio"

    Q: Why do I get drop-outs or silences on the HD2 Services?

    A: This is a sign of marginal signal strength at your radio. It is important to remember that the HD Radio multicast channels (HD2, HD3, etc), unlike the HD1 channel, do not have an analog signal for the radio to 'fall-back to' when digital reception is lost. So a listener with marginal reception that is losing the digital signal will experience periods of silence until the signal is regained.

    http://www.wpr.org/hd/hd_faq.cfm

    HD/IBOC is inherently fatally-flawed and will never work. Poor reception is a problem with all HD radios.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by PocketRadio View Post
    HD Radio suffers from dropouts, interference, poor reception, and the HD2/HD3 channels have no analog backups. There is a nasty delay, as the HD channels are acquired. This system has been in development for more than 10 years, so don't count on any of this getting fixed. The 10db power increase, being talked about for FM-HD, if approved, will require replacement of all of the broadcasters' HD hardware, so it isn't going to happen. HD radio is nothing but a farce:

    http://hdradiofarce.blogspot.com
    This is your only post ever? Have you ever even used HDRadio in a decent setup? I had the setup on my test bench working perfect. It was a beautiful thing that i am trying to achieve since moving the setup to my vehicle. I had no dropouts.

    It is understandable that the subchannels cant have an analog backup, as the digital system is a piggyback of the analog system, where would the analog backups go, on top of someone elses frequency? What, are you new?

    "The FM hybrid digital/analog mode offers four options which can carry approximately 100, 112, 125, or 150 kbit/s of lossy data depending upon the Station Manager's power budget and/or desired range of signal (achieving perceived quality equal to a 1400 kbit/s CD). If in the future the FCC decides to discontinue analog radio, as they have done with analog television,[17] the HD Radio provides several pure digital modes. In these modes broadcasts can be made at 270 or 300 kbit/s maximum, with extra features like surround sound. Like AM, pure digital FM provides a "fall back" condition where it reverts to a low-quality 25 kbit/s signal in the event of interference."

    The station is the one who determines its own signal strength, not the technology. Of course there is a delay! Its digital! Do you have an HDTV? pfffst. Is your analog system free of dropouts and interference? Let me answer that for you, NO. Analog systems are prone to such instances. Get out of my thread if you cant contribute anything meaningful to my current issue. No bashing allowed.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by rock99rock View Post
    This is your only post ever? Have you ever even used HDRadio in a decent setup? I had the setup on my test bench working perfect. It was a beautiful thing that i am trying to achieve since moving the setup to my vehicle. I had no dropouts.

    It is understandable that the subchannels cant have an analog backup, as the digital system is a piggyback of the analog system, where would the analog backups go, on top of someone elses frequency? What, are you new?

    "The FM hybrid digital/analog mode offers four options which can carry approximately 100, 112, 125, or 150 kbit/s of lossy data depending upon the Station Manager's power budget and/or desired range of signal (achieving perceived quality equal to a 1400 kbit/s CD). If in the future the FCC decides to discontinue analog radio, as they have done with analog television,[17] the HD Radio provides several pure digital modes. In these modes broadcasts can be made at 270 or 300 kbit/s maximum, with extra features like surround sound. Like AM, pure digital FM provides a "fall back" condition where it reverts to a low-quality 25 kbit/s signal in the event of interference."

    The station is the one who determines its own signal strength, not the technology. Of course there is a delay! Its digital! Do you have an HDTV? pfffst. Is your analog system free of dropouts and interference? Let me answer that for you, NO. Analog systems are prone to such instances. Get out of my thread if you cant contribute anything meaningful to my current issue. No bashing allowed.
    "Digital Audio Broadcasting Systems and Their Impact on the Terrestrial Radio Broadcast Service"

    15. We will not establish a deadline for radio stations to convert to digital broadcasting. Stations may decide if, and when, they will provide digital service to the public. Several reasons support this decision. First, unlike television licensees, radio stations are under no statutory mandate to convert to a digital format. Second, a hard deadline is unnecessary given that DAB uses an in-band technology that does not require the allocation of additional spectrum. Thus, the spectrum reclamation needs that exist for DTV do not exist here. Moreover, there is no evidence in the record that marketplace forces cannot propel the DAB conversion forward, and effective markets tend to provide better solutions than regulatory schemes.

    16. iBiquity argues that in the early stages of the transition, the Commission should favor and protect existing analog signals. It states that this could be accomplished by limiting the power level and bandwidth occupancy of the digital carriers in the hybrid mode. At some point in the future, when the Commission determines there is sufficient market penetration of digital receivers, iBiquity asserts that the public interest will be best served by reversing this presumption to favor digital operations. At that time, broadcasters will no longer need to protect analog operations by limiting the digital signal and stations should have the option to implement all-digital broadcasts. We decline to adopt iBiquity's presumption policy because it is too early in the DAB conversion process for us to consider such a mechanism. We find that such a policy, if adopted now, may have unknown and unintended consequences for a new technology that has yet to be accepted by the public or widely adopted by the broadcast industry.

    http://www.epa.gov/fedrgstr/EPA-IMPA...-15/i15922.htm

    Even if, the FCC one day mandated HD/IBOC, which is doubtful, it wouldn't help because only radio-geeks buy radios anymore, and consumers have zero interest in HD Radio. One cannot force consumers to buy empty HD radios through a mandate. HD/IBOc is inherently flawed and will never work - most HD radios have been returned as defective because of poor receptiom dropouts, and interference. Besides, AM-HD doesn't work, especially nighttime AM-HD, and FM-HD jams, also. LOL!

  4. #14
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    my HD RADIO ROCKS in my car... it says locked on FM 100%, and 99.9% on AM

    i wish in USA we choose DAB, but for what ever reason(s) we got HD Radio...
    all i know is this is a 1st gen tuner, and its DAMM! good

    mitch
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  5. #15
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    i have been havening problems with my unit, i think it might be a bad unit ( not to mention i think i shorted it out while doing some trouble shooting )


    one day i will have hd stations, they cut in and out a little in bad areas, and analog is clear.

    the next day i wont even be able to get 1/2 the stations, and the all sound like crap.

    huge hisssssssss, and nothing i do makes it go away.

    and what has changed in the two days? nothing

    i have tried moving the antenna connections around, no change
    i have tried different grounding options
    i have tried checking all connections

    when i got new drivers for the usb to serial it worked good again, but the next day, back to crappy signal ( i don't think the cable has anything to do with signal quality, you can turn on the radio and unplug the connector and you will still have signal)

    on a cold morning one day it worked, so i thought it might have to do with temp.

    but i don't know anymore, i hope it was just a bad unit i got, and getting a new one will fix this problem.

    I'm going to order a new one, because my old one wont do anything now.

    if it does the same thing i don't know what it is...

    maybe someone else had had the same problem ??

  6. #16
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    I listened to my radio this morning for an hour with only one drop. The trick? I turned off the monitor. Dont ask me why that worked. With exception to the ****ty processing by my lilliput gl701, for the most part it was flawless compared to what it has been. I just think my gl701 unit is a poorly designed POS.

    Im looking into other alternatives now. I might just dissassemble the lilliput and just use the screen. I would need to find a decent apu and video switcher, and audio amplifier. Now i wont have a built in tv tuner either. Mo money Mo money Mo money. Damnit.

  7. #17
    Car Audio Moderator durwood's Avatar
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    My friend has noticed that his carpc actually interferes with his stock radio reception and sometimes his GPS antenna. If he turns the carpc off, he can get reception again on his factory radio. Still trying to track down the noise but it's either clocking frequencies on the motherboard or the DC-DC switching power supply (not sure at what frequency the M2-ATX switches at).

    He also has the HD radio and has some problems with reception sometimes. We are thinking it's computer related RFI. The GPS antenna has to be located at the front of the vehicle to work-not sure if this is computer RFI or fuel pump.

  8. #18
    FLAC Nola111's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PocketRadio View Post
    "NPR story on HD radio startup"

    "Problems with the system that pervade the entire HD/IBOC data and codec from beginning to end, all the way to the signal on the air persist. The codec, by today's standards, is grossly inferior on FM and literally unspeakable on AM (gee, I had no idea). Since they're hardwired into the receivers, they won't be changed anytime soon, if ever. But it goes beyond that. There were bad choices of network layer such that reliability is compromised. The code used in exciters has a severe memory leak, so the exciters crash routinely. The receivers can be locked up solid by malformed packets, requiring a power cycle to restore operation. The list goes on and on and on. Will any of this get fixed? Probably not, since all the money right now is going to promotion, not to technical bug fixes. This is a system that has been in development for a decade and a half, and it still has problems from beginning to end that range from audio encoding, through the transport layers, to the encoding, and now, with the spectral regrowth problems, to the broadcast bands themselves; you know...that which is supposed to be serving the public. I would love to be implementing digital radio. But this is garbage."

    http://tinyurl.com/2kbzsn

    "Renowned Cambridge SoundWorks HD Radio Designer Explains HD Radio"

    "HD Radio broadcasts require a consistent, stronger signal than analog broadcasts... Below the minimum required signal le vel, the HD Radio program switches back to the analog signal... There is a limit to how far you can be from a transmitter and still receive an HD Radio transmission. For flat land with no obstructions, this limit could be as far away as 20-25 miles. For hilly terrain, the limit may drop to 10-15 miles. For the strongest signal within 20 miles of a radio transmitter, the user should position the provided 30 inch dipole antenna either horizontally or vertically along a wall or window."

    http://www.hdradio.com/the_buzz.php?thebuzz=87

    "Questions About High Definition HD Radio"

    Q: Why do I get drop-outs or silences on the HD2 Services?

    A: This is a sign of marginal signal strength at your radio. It is important to remember that the HD Radio multicast channels (HD2, HD3, etc), unlike the HD1 channel, do not have an analog signal for the radio to 'fall-back to' when digital reception is lost. So a listener with marginal reception that is losing the digital signal will experience periods of silence until the signal is regained.

    http://www.wpr.org/hd/hd_faq.cfm

    HD/IBOC is inherently fatally-flawed and will never work. Poor reception is a problem with all HD radios.

    Ok? So you start the post with my quote and then cite 4 paragraphs that don't address my post in any way, shape or form. No one is going to jump on your "HD Farce" bandwagon, dipsh1t. So go away.

  9. #19
    Who am I? HiJackZX1's Avatar
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    Maybe you have a ground loop? Try doing Mitch's mod were you add a ground cable to the RCA port on the Visteon. Maybe thats why you have interference?
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  10. #20
    Who am I? HiJackZX1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nola111 View Post
    Ok? So you start the post with my quote and then cite 4 paragraphs that don't address my post in any way, shape or form. No one is going to jump on your "HD Farce" bandwagon, dipsh1t. So go away.
    I agree with you Nola..........and even if HD radio is going to fail, the Visteon is still the best way to get AM and FM radio on a CarPC. Remember the unit does support Analog and HD. So all those paragraphs you posted PocketRadio, looked like this at 6:00 am:

    BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

    oh and BLAH.

    I just hate when you have haters that dont see the whole picture. Maybe hes mad because he doesnt have the room to fit one in his car?
    Nirwana Project, the Android/Win 7 hybrid system!

    1X Ainol Novo Flame Tab
    4X MK808b
    3x Perixx Touchpads
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    1X 7 inch motorized Screen
    1x Win 7 PC

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