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Thread: Plug and Play CarPC??

  1. #21
    Constant Bitrate firstorbit84's Avatar
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    Ok, Dashboard... I definitely don't think anyone around here (much less anyone in the normal consumer market) will be willing to shell out $2500 for a CarPC... Especially if they don't need half the features you mentioned. Does that include installation and lifetime support?? For that price, it'd better.

    In fact, I'm pretty sure I could buy a WHOLE car and build a killer CarPC into it for that price

    Thanks for Spamming my thread. Now...

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by justchat_1 View Post
    Well rob was right...... people don't like $500+ markups on their products.

    A few tips though.....
    * Cut the deceptive marketing BS with "Tru-zone"...its a dual screen setup-thats it! It's incredibly deceptive in how the description is worded implying it does more then that. (On your website not the one you just gave)
    * Actually list prices and features on your web site.
    * I should know what hardware is powering this $2500 carPC, whether or not it includes an amplifier and whether or not it includes a radio. The description seems to imply it includes neither

    Where is the "BS" or "deceptive" text as you put it in the TRUzone system, true it is a multi monitor system, DUH, simple understanding there. You want to sell to those that want 'simple', what about our description isn't 'simple'? You want more Zones..AHH!! We have that in R&D now, oh wait...more money!! Next version may have as many as well almost unlimited zones... more R&D will only tell, but who's paying for those guys time? Not some eBay based company like your concept, I bet...

    Show me your Hardware/Software setup that can truly deal with "real" Multi-Zone, I'm not talking just dual monitor!! Who can't do that?? You show me your software that supports features like ours? RideRunner, nope! LinuxICE, Kev we are talkin aren't we?.. Centrafuse? We paid FluxMedia HUGE money to build in these features and it's taken them over a year to get it there. We don't use a computer base sound system, Windows doesn't handle audio with crap. We have true A/V chips that you would see in most any car radio if you ripped it apart, and that takes some really cusomer code to get it to work correctly and I have years worth of email to and from FluxMedia to prove that as they build using one our our systems.

    We paid for a lot of what you see in Centrafuse now, including the Warning screen, File Manage, Voice Recorder, Photo Viewer, TRUzone and more, We paid for it, you 'YOU' get most of it for free, yep, we paid HUGE money to help keep Centrafuse alive and get this stuff built and you get it FREE 'over the cost of CF that is'. Why, cause we wanted everyone to have these features! Yes, Mp3car sells CF and that means to us they are selling what Dashboard has paid for...

    "I should know what hardware is powering this $2500 carPC, whether or not it includes an amplifier and whether or not it includes a radio. The description seems to imply it includes neither"
    Try reading again... "Built-in: “Dual” FM RDS/TMC tuners" is very clear, yep we are talking whole world features here, not just USA or Europe based features... Oh, wait, more R&D money...wow how that adds up.. But no matter where it's sold "IT WORKS"!!!

    $2500 will get you any of our systems and then the options go from there... So does your design have simple wiring? To get to a point where we have simple wiring took an long time and again thousands of dollars. Are antennas included in your offerings? Who supplies those, Delphi? You wish! Unless you order something like 1 million+ units they won't even talk to you outside a Trade Show, good luck to you on that one.

    Oh, why not get some China based company to build it all for you, yea, they will build a mini-itx box and brand it with your logo sure, they will also sell your design to the companies across the street, down the bock and across town. We have an international lawyer on staff and it's still hard to keep this companies from taking our designs...

    Rob was right from your point of view, you are an eBay buyer. Who here would rightfully buy an eBay item from you when they could get it for less them selves???

    Kev is right about the amount of time involved in development and that costs Thousands, most of that a company doesn't recover (Kev I bet feels this too, can I say that Kev? or David from FluxMedia or Mike from RevFE or..or...), you CAN'T sell eBay crap and stay in business. You "must" design, build, develop, test, partner and sell you own stuff. Automotive grade stuff, not eBay office crap. The new Automotive USB hub mp3Car has is not eBay crap, they built it, sure $80 is high to me, I have a design for a dual external drive carrier with dual USB ports and we plan to sell it for $40, so it all depends on R&D, time, and what you hope to recover if anything getting to market...

    You know you sound like the type that is better off reselling Bluestar systems, aka Hiinfo...You know them right...what no? They are the company others on here resell (do a search for N52 and N53 CarPC's, you sill see), Hiinfo is also the company that got "removed' from CES 2008 for displaying a bootlegged UI that took directly from Centrafuse 2.0 UI... Check it out, they still have the graphics on their site... But I'm sure you knew that history, right?


    As you can see you hit a nerve, sorry to all if I wondered a bit, when someone that doesn't have a clue wants to pick away at details in a market that other have been in for YEARS it's enough to get you mad. You have a question... ASK!!, I don't have a single email in our history from you so you must know it all, Kev too has hit on points that you clearly don't know either... Man stop while you are ahead..

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by firstorbit84 View Post
    Ok, Dashboard... I definitely don't think anyone around here (much less anyone in the normal consumer market) will be willing to shell out $2500 for a CarPC... Especially if they don't need half the features you mentioned. Does that include installation and lifetime support?? For that price, it'd better.

    In fact, I'm pretty sure I could buy a WHOLE car and build a killer CarPC into it for that price

    Thanks for Spamming my thread. Now...
    Guess Rob was right, cheap is what he said and you guys are living up to it...

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by dashboard View Post
    Where is the "BS" or "deceptive" text as you put it in the TRUzone system, true it is a multi monitor system, DUH, simple understanding there. You want to sell to those that want 'simple', what about our description isn't 'simple'? You want more Zones..AHH!! We have that in R&D now, oh wait...more money!! Next version may have as many as well almost unlimited zones... more R&D will only tell, but who's paying for those guys time? Not some eBay based company like your concept, I bet...

    Show me your Hardware/Software setup that can truly deal with "real" Multi-Zone, I'm not talking just dual monitor!! Who can't do that?? You show me your software that supports features like ours? RideRunner, nope! LinuxICE, Kev we are talkin aren't we?.. Centrafuse? We paid FluxMedia HUGE money to build in these features and it's taken them over a year to get it there. We don't use a computer base sound system, Windows doesn't handle audio with crap. We have true A/V chips that you would see in most any car radio if you ripped it apart, and that takes some really cusomer code to get it to work correctly and I have years worth of email to and from FluxMedia to prove that as they build using one our our systems.

    We paid for a lot of what you see in Centrafuse now, including the Warning screen, File Manage, Voice Recorder, Photo Viewer, TRUzone and more, We paid for it, you 'YOU' get most of it for free, yep, we paid HUGE money to help keep Centrafuse alive and get this stuff built and you get it FREE 'over the cost of CF that is'. Why, cause we wanted everyone to have these features! Yes, Mp3car sells CF and that means to us they are selling what Dashboard has paid for...

    "I should know what hardware is powering this $2500 carPC, whether or not it includes an amplifier and whether or not it includes a radio. The description seems to imply it includes neither"
    Try reading again... "Built-in: “Dual” FM RDS/TMC tuners" is very clear, yep we are talking whole world features here, not just USA or Europe based features... Oh, wait, more R&D money...wow how that adds up.. But no matter where it's sold "IT WORKS"!!!

    $2500 will get you any of our systems and then the options go from there... So does your design have simple wiring? To get to a point where we have simple wiring took an long time and again thousands of dollars. Are antennas included in your offerings? Who supplies those, Delphi? You wish! Unless you order something like 1 million+ units they won't even talk to you outside a Trade Show, good luck to you on that one.

    Oh, why not get some China based company to build it all for you, yea, they will build a mini-itx box and brand it with your logo sure, they will also sell your design to the companies across the street, down the bock and across town. We have an international lawyer on staff and it's still hard to keep this companies from taking our designs...

    Rob was right from your point of view, you are an eBay buyer. Who here would rightfully buy an eBay item from you when they could get it for less them selves???

    Kev is right about the amount of time involved in development and that costs Thousands, most of that a company doesn't recover (Kev I bet feels this too, can I say that Kev? or David from FluxMedia or Mike from RevFE or..or...), you CAN'T sell eBay crap and stay in business. You "must" design, build, develop, test, partner and sell you own stuff. Automotive grade stuff, not eBay office crap. The new Automotive USB hub mp3Car has is not eBay crap, they built it, sure $80 is high to me, I have a design for a dual external drive carrier with dual USB ports and we plan to sell it for $40, so it all depends on R&D, time, and what you hope to recover if anything getting to market...

    You know you sound like the type that is better off reselling Bluestar systems, aka Hiinfo...You know them right...what no? They are the company others on here resell (do a search for N52 and N53 CarPC's, you sill see), Hiinfo is also the company that got "removed' from CES 2008 for displaying a bootlegged UI that took directly from Centrafuse 2.0 UI... Check it out, they still have the graphics on their site... But I'm sure you knew that history, right?


    As you can see you hit a nerve, sorry to all if I wondered a bit, when someone that doesn't have a clue wants to pick away at details in a market that other have been in for YEARS it's enough to get you mad. You have a question... ASK!!, I don't have a single email in our history from you so you must know it all, Kev too has hit on points that you clearly don't know either... Man stop while you are ahead..
    **** you get defensive....sorry to hear you shelled out so much money for such an overpriced setup->i guess thats the difference between R&D and GOOD R&D.

    What software can do that->openMobile but I guess that would involve you actually reading to the bottom of a post before flaming (its in my sig). TRU-multizone implies you can use more then two screens, not the technology you actually offer which is known by the entire industry as dual-zone. Just because you are researching ways to expand this to more then two does not mean you can advertise that functionality. Thats called deceptive marketing....want me to be more specific? I can quote your product description that starts off saying front and rear and then changes to saying rear touchscreens (plural).

    Now as far as me being clueless....your talking to a computer engineer with 3 designs in the prototyping phase and a supply chain ready to go so yea I know exactly whats involved, how much parts cost new and the complexities of getting a system to market. I also know that spending thousands in R&D doesn't mean your designing a good product.....just that you're spending a lot of money.

    I do want to thank you though for demonstrating your complete lack of understanding of this community. My second carPC setup was 100% new parts from various suppliers and I still achieved a dual screen, core 2 duo setup, fully integrated for $1100. There are dozens of members here with similar (and even far better) setups for 1/2 the cost of what you propose. I also know of two companies that built sunlight readable in-dash, all in one double-din setups for <$2000.

    Not sure how me criticizing your product makes me a cheap ebay reseller or part of the group that infringed on cf (and rr before that if I remember correctly)....Again though, best of luck

  5. #25
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    As an interesting exercise, I tried to price out a similar system with as many features as dashboard's offering as i could find. This isn't an exact match by any means but it's the kind of prices you'll be looking at if you want a similar system:

    Stuff found on mp3car that is "similar":
    Name:  price1.jpg
Views: 262
Size:  52.2 KB

    Stuff found on newegg when mp3car didn't have anything that matched:
    Name:  price2.jpg
Views: 273
Size:  56.2 KB

    This totals up to 2125.87, for which a $475 markup doesn't sound unreasonable to me. I'm still missing the cost of centrafuse and cabling that is required beyond what I have listed. Also, one should take into account the custom stuff that dashboard has done to make it easier to install and manage it all better. mp3car has video from last years CES featuring some of dashboard's innovations. Do a search, it'll save you some time. Look at the touchscreen alone. I priced out a "similar" $500 TS. Other touchscreens that are even comparable (ie have embedded cd/dvd drives) that I've seen cost $1000 or more. Also note that the GPS receive he's using isn't a surfstar3 POS. It's a 4Hz high sensativity ublox GPS module. You can literally not have an antenna, throw the PC in your trunk and still get a decent signal.

    I promise that most of you have spent a lot more than you think on your system. You've just done it over time so it doesn't seem like its as much. I don't even want to quantify the money I've spent and I sure as heck don't want my wife to know :P.

    However, in the end, this *is* the forum full of folks who spend hours and hours, days and days, on R & D, on software, on hardware to save $30 like bugbyte said.
    Former author of LinuxICE, nghost, nobdy.
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  6. #26
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    justchat_1, I didn't mean to rant or point fingers at any one person, this post covered ebay based buys as a parts source to resell... You can't compare "ANY" prebuilt systems to parts off ebay. Nor can you sell any product with no mark-up and stay in business... You have to pay yourself if not others that now depend on you and the company to sell..

    Kev also, very clearly I might add, points out that if you were to buy parts that still are not to the level of what we have put into our systems like the ublox 4hz gps, we use, you would be in the cost range of our products with little to no mark-up. How would you keep a company afloat and pay your employees with no mark-up??

    (Kev, you will like our new chip, it's smaller then a US Dime and has higher stats..)

    Also the other features you don't see on the surface of our hardware or noted on our site, you may never need, but their there, like LIN or CAN...
    Why add LIN, cause it cost us one day of labor and $3.00 in parts. Now we are open to most off of the LIN based products, if you don't want to use it, then don't..
    Why on earth do we need CAN when you can use OBDII for the cost of a Bluetooth Dongle?... Because the Tier-1's (GM, Toyota, etc...) are doing away with the ACC circuit for one example. So... Once this happens how will you boot your systems then? Not a single PSU outside of the ENV systems do this yet. You can do this from the CAN network, and we have this built-in already. So you are ready to go...
    Why is this important? Well for now unless you drive one of Cadillacs newest cars that runs a 48volt system, you and I shouldn't care. But if this wasn't done (=R&D) you would be leaving out this large group of users, them and most of the electric vehicles that run CAN that is, not all do.. It's a larger group then you might think...

    You can find our systems in Police and Fire vehicles mostly, they have been used by guys that punish them more then the group here ever will...minus kids.. sticky fingers can be deadly... Our systems may look high in price, but list the features you 'really' want and then look at our setup, are we really that far off or does it really get back to Bugbyte's comment of "to save $30" thing?...

    If we want to talk about what "True" multi-zone is then ok, but it is not Dual-monitor. There is a Huge difference...

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by justchat_1 View Post
    * Cut the deceptive marketing BS with "Tru-zone"...its a dual screen setup-thats it! It's incredibly deceptive in how the description is worded implying it does more then that. (On your website not the one you just gave)

    If you don't like marketing then don't buy..... well.... anything. From anywhere.
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by malcom2073 View Post
    If you don't like marketing then don't buy..... well.... anything. From anywhere.
    No **** marketing is a part of life....and I have no problem with trying to make a product sound better then it is, giving it a fancy name or anything else associated with legitimate marketing. What I do have a problem with is advertising features in a product that blatantly don't exist. Thats not marketing that false advertising and actually grounds for a nice lawsuit if you **** off enough people (I don't really need to give examples here do I?). I've had at least two users on these forums alone that were mislead by that product description into thinking it did more then it actually did-hence me stating it so directly.

    Quote Originally Posted by dashboard View Post
    justchat_1, I didn't mean to rant or point fingers at any one person, this post covered ebay based buys as a parts source to resell... You can't compare "ANY" prebuilt systems to parts off ebay. Nor can you sell any product with no mark-up and stay in business... You have to pay yourself if not others that now depend on you and the company to sell..

    Kev also, very clearly I might add, points out that if you were to buy parts that still are not to the level of what we have put into our systems like the ublox 4hz gps, we use, you would be in the cost range of our products with little to no mark-up. How would you keep a company afloat and pay your employees with no mark-up??

    (Kev, you will like our new chip, it's smaller then a US Dime and has higher stats..)

    Also the other features you don't see on the surface of our hardware or noted on our site, you may never need, but their there, like LIN or CAN...
    Why add LIN, cause it cost us one day of labor and $3.00 in parts. Now we are open to most off of the LIN based products, if you don't want to use it, then don't..
    Why on earth do we need CAN when you can use OBDII for the cost of a Bluetooth Dongle?... Because the Tier-1's (GM, Toyota, etc...) are doing away with the ACC circuit for one example. So... Once this happens how will you boot your systems then? Not a single PSU outside of the ENV systems do this yet. You can do this from the CAN network, and we have this built-in already. So you are ready to go...
    Why is this important? Well for now unless you drive one of Cadillacs newest cars that runs a 48volt system, you and I shouldn't care. But if this wasn't done (=R&D) you would be leaving out this large group of users, them and most of the electric vehicles that run CAN that is, not all do.. It's a larger group then you might think...

    You can find our systems in Police and Fire vehicles mostly, they have been used by guys that punish them more then the group here ever will...minus kids.. sticky fingers can be deadly... Our systems may look high in price, but list the features you 'really' want and then look at our setup, are we really that far off or does it really get back to Bugbyte's comment of "to save $30" thing?...

    If we want to talk about what "True" multi-zone is then ok, but it is not Dual-monitor. There is a Huge difference...
    My apologies for my reaction then....as you quoted only my post alone I was under the impression your comments were directed at me. I have no doubt about the quality of your products, you clearly put out some great stuff. My point was that a high priced very proprietary design does not do well in the consumer market. I have no doubt in high end and specialty applications that your product may be the best choice. However, in the consumer market people don't care whether their GPS refreshes once per second or four times they care that their iPod works without hassle and that their nav system finds the best route (something destinator is awful at).
    I'm sure your familiar with the success of PC's over apple hardware a decade ago and the same principle holds true today-off the shelf hardware (when available) will always deliver the same features for a lower price then proprietary technology. That has been and will continue to be the direction I push->as price estimates seem to back up my theory.
    Quote Originally Posted by tripzero View Post
    As an interesting exercise, I tried to price out a similar system with as many features as dashboard's offering as i could find. This isn't an exact match by any means but it's the kind of prices you'll be looking at if you want a similar system:

    Stuff found on mp3car that is "similar":
    Name:  price1.jpg
Views: 262
Size:  52.2 KB

    Stuff found on newegg when mp3car didn't have anything that matched:
    Name:  price2.jpg
Views: 273
Size:  56.2 KB

    This totals up to 2125.87, for which a $475 markup doesn't sound unreasonable to me. I'm still missing the cost of centrafuse and cabling that is required beyond what I have listed. Also, one should take into account the custom stuff that dashboard has done to make it easier to install and manage it all better. mp3car has video from last years CES featuring some of dashboard's innovations. Do a search, it'll save you some time. Look at the touchscreen alone. I priced out a "similar" $500 TS. Other touchscreens that are even comparable (ie have embedded cd/dvd drives) that I've seen cost $1000 or more. Also note that the GPS receive he's using isn't a surfstar3 POS. It's a 4Hz high sensativity ublox GPS module. You can literally not have an antenna, throw the PC in your trunk and still get a decent signal.

    I promise that most of you have spent a lot more than you think on your system. You've just done it over time so it doesn't seem like its as much. I don't even want to quantify the money I've spent and I sure as heck don't want my wife to know :P.

    However, in the end, this *is* the forum full of folks who spend hours and hours, days and days, on R & D, on software, on hardware to save $30 like bugbyte said.
    really kev? :P not to pick on mp3car's store but do you have any idea how different bulk pricing is from mp3cars prices? I could argue against your hd radio selection too and probably at least $500 worth of stuff you picked out but my main point is that a device you sell to a consumer needs to be designed for a consumer.
    Theres two lists of requirements that go along with that....the list of features a consumer is going to want in a device and a list of features a consumer wouldn't think of but would add to its appeal. I strongly feel (and have market research to back up) that a user could care less whether you use a 1hz or 5hz gps, the power of the internal amp, ports available on the back, or the ease of installation. On the other hand, show a user buttons that change color to match their dash and its a big selling point they wouldn't have thought of (yea I know thats a dashboard feature).
    On the same note...the average consumer could care less if a system is based on linux or window or the speed of the processor. But if the interface lags, the processor overheats or they get a blue screen-they will probably never buy from that company again (hence kenwoods horrible ratings).

  9. #29
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    justchat_1, You claim we are lying about the features of the TRUzone... Show this forum how smart you are and prove it!... If you can't then who do you think will have the better foot hold for that lawsuit you so want?? You must want it cause it's not something you throw around for fun...

    Oh I did again read the posted page, for a refresher, and there is one mistake... I'm sorry for that one... wait for it....

    The GPS Viewer was never built... Nope you got me there...

    In place of that we gave the back seat passengers 'FULL ACCESS' to the Drivers GPS, the same GPS screen the Driver has access to, which the Driver can also lock out, by the way. Now the passengers in the rear can enter an address and the Driver can take it back with route in place... Better then yelling out the address just to have the Driver who can't enter anything while driving anyway right... Oh, this whole product has a patent on it... So it must be true, right? I mean I read it in print, print is always true, right?

    What next, we don't have all-in-one cables?

  10. #30
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    Hell, as far as "marketing" goes, I'd love to sue every single manufacturer that makes "steam cleaners" for your home. I have yet to see ANY steam from ANY of these cleaners. And yet it says on the appliance with big bold letters. "Steam Cleaner", and their ads continuously talk about the "power of steam" or something similar.

    For once I'd just like to see some freakin steam come out of the damn thing.

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