Flash card bootable drive?

**spectrumzz** · 12-12-2003, 04:17 AM

Originally Posted by deadweasel

CF isn't really all that different from flashdrive. Just different buses. One is IDE (CF) and the other is serial (USB flashdrive). Unless of course, I got confused as to what everyone was referring to by "flash drive".

IDE is capable of faster transfer, but both CF and Flashdrive aren't capable of much more than the 12mbps transfer anyhow. (At least that's how it was explained to ME...)

Most ramdrive systems are slow, and the fact that USB 1.0 is VERY slow doesn't help matters (the write rate is around 256 mb / 10 mins which is something like 300 kb/s).

Another big thing that people are completely missing that ruins flash as a system for this kind of thing is that each ram location is writable around 1 million times. This is easily reached when used for a filesystem (such as NTFS) where sections may be written tens or hundreds of times per use. Once you've reached that ballpark, it's not very reliable.

The guy who said IDE and flash are similar speeds is smoking crack. EIDE buses are much faster (by definition) than USB 1.0 and USB 1.1, regardless of the media that is hooked onto the bus. A good experiment is to write a 10 meg file to your flash hookup and a 10 meg file to disk, and then perform multiple reads. And there is no argument about using a RAM disk (ie. copying to SDRAM), as you can do that from any media as well, and that will be nearly the fastest you can achieve. The only thing faster is a ROM.

**mpattonm** · 12-12-2003, 05:54 AM

Originally Posted by The Durango Kid

Thanks for the replies.. After doing a little research it seems the only solution for running an OS off a CF is Windows Embedding which I'm still not 100% sure is read only but seems to be.. Microsoft puts out a eval version that I'll test out once I get my system together but buying this OS seems out of the question as it's for OEM device builders only..

I think my 1st try will be storing my OS on the CF and running it off a RamDrive.. I wish the mini-itx boards supported 2gig of ram.. It would make this option more appealing..

Might be "read-only" if you chose EWF to include. EWF = Enhanced write filtrer

**mpattonm** · 12-12-2003, 06:06 AM

Originally Posted by The Durango Kid

I'm in the process of mapping my hardware out for my carputer..

My Hardware:
Epia M10000 Nehemiah
SATA 80gig HardDrive
1024meg of ram

A bit OT - how are you going to connect SAT drive ri EPIA-M?

**The Durango Kid** · 12-12-2003, 08:19 AM

Might be "read-only" if you chose EWF to include. EWF = Enhanced write filtrer

Never head of this before.. Is it an OS based thing or Bios/Hardware?

A bit OT - how are you going to connect SAT drive ri EPIA-M?

Sorry a bit of mix up.. My original idea was a Bio-Star ITX setup.. That is where the SATA came from.. Thanks for find it.. That would have sucked if I ordered one only to find I had to now order a SATA card to use it..
Here is the Bio-Star setup I was going to use since I have a 1.4gig T-Bird sitting around..
http://www.excaliberpc.com/product_i...oducts_id=2684

**mpattonm** · 12-12-2003, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by The Durango Kid

Never head of this before.. Is it an OS based thing or Bios/Hardware?

EWF is one of the "features" of WinXPE, which you can build into your image that redirects all the writes to "black hole", enabling developers to make read-only enviroments. You can find some more data here http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/de...ritefilter.asp

Originally Posted by The Durango Kid

Sorry a bit of mix up.. My original idea was a Bio-Star ITX setup.. That is where the SATA came from.. Thanks for find it.. That would have sucked if I ordered one only to find I had to now order a SATA card to use it..
Here is the Bio-Star setup I was going to use since I have a 1.4gig T-Bird sitting around..
http://www.excaliberpc.com/product_i...oducts_id=2684

I see

**The Durango Kid** · 12-12-2003, 08:52 AM

I see.. But getting WindowsXP Embedded is a problem in itself without stealing it.. If Microsoft has a personal uses version of this, great but I'm not about to warez it.. I've done enough of that in my youth..

**fluffy2097** · 12-12-2003, 11:58 AM

Why doesn't someone with a CF card large enough to do so just test what gets better performance? Copy a copy of knoppix or whatever to a CF card, and an identical copy to an IDE drive. Time the boot of each, and then run some basic performance tests.

Instant end of debate.

/the scientific method is fun.

**mjp** · 02-10-2004, 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by The Durango Kid

I see.. But getting WindowsXP Embedded is a problem in itself without stealing it.. If Microsoft has a personal uses version of this, great but I'm not about to warez it.. I've done enough of that in my youth..

This is now a free download for the evaluation copy if you build a image and it runs for 120 days...there are ways around it otherwise I know of someone who is moving towards buying the developer kit...maybe he can help ya out?

**eugenen** · 02-11-2004, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by fluffy2097

Why doesn't someone with a CF card large enough to do so just test what gets better performance? Copy a copy of knoppix or whatever to a CF card, and an identical copy to an IDE drive. Time the boot of each, and then run some basic performance tests.

Instant end of debate.

/the scientific method is fun.

I might have to try that. I have slack booting off a 128m cf, I could hook up a hdd and make a 128m partition and copy it right over and try it out.

Drivesoft · 12-02-2004, 02:40 AM

Maybe I did I not read the post correctly so let me step back and see if this will help.

First I am not sure why the work around that everyone is doing just to get fast boot time. This can be dome just setting up XP correctly and using standby. Make sure you have the latest drivers for hardware etc. We have custom drivers for our hardware but that is not completely needed if you have device that support STR mode. XP will come out of standby in 6 secs with out any special work being done. Out of hibernate in about 10secs.

However if you or insisting on using CF for speed you may be shock that it is not as fast as you may think. Fast true but not super speed. The only reason we use CF is for industrial units and to places we ship were it is super cold like in parts of Europe and Canada. When have seen hard drive just stop completely because of cold weather etc.

Step by step fax that work for us. If they don’t work for you then you may be from a different part of the computing world. Like the one I don’t know about lol.

You will have a nightmare trying to load the XP OS on removable media. It must be a fixed drive. SO how do you get a fixed drive? I do no know and really never cared about finding out. Why? That’s because we have a CF manufacture set up our CF card to a fixed drive. We then format NTFS and then partition it and make it active so then it will have the correct MBR needed to point to the ntldr and load the OS.

Some extra things you may want to know: Standard off the "ebayself" etc Lexar, sandisk etc are multi level cell CF cards which do not come as fixed an I think there is no way to change a multi level cell CF to a fixed drive, That I know of but then again as I said I never checked. Other thing is multi level cell CF card allow manufacture to have above 1gig so that why they do it this way. So if you are going to run an OS on CF first it should be an industrial Single Level Cell CF card. Another note is that you will not find a Single Level Cell CF card larger then 1gig, that I know of.

So you are in a little bit of a jam if you do not want to use XPE unless you have a reliable way to get XPpro smaller like with nlite etc.

Let me just say that I have not research this topic as far as what now may be available. I am just telling you what we have been doing with CF card and it has bee working for a few years very well. The Single level cell cf cards also have a much high life. You could get between 3 to 7 years of usage out of one.

SO where do you get off the self CF fixed industrial CF cards? Not sure where of the shelf would be. We get ours in bulk from the manufacture that sets them up for us so all we need to do it load the OS etc and go.

Hope you can find some that can be sold in 1 pc qty.

Good luck